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Author Topic: Help fldash with pricing  (Read 9716 times)
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Kolath Offline
Commander, 2nd Infantry Division
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Posts: 2382



« on: August 27, 2008, 01:26:21 pm »

Per fldash's request:

My initial want would be to find people that have the time to do the task, as well as those I think would be good at it.  I'm not impartial though, I have my favorite community members as does everyone else...

Could we keep this post active for community feedback and create another with only posts from people who are interested in the position?

Please only post here if you are interested in the position of helping do pricing balance.  No back and forth or discussion of the posts.  Keep that in the main thread.

Thank you.
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Kolath Offline
Commander, 2nd Infantry Division
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Posts: 2382



« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 01:27:55 pm »

Salan is too long-winded  Cheesy  But thanks for the praise!

I've tried to keep my nomination views out of it, I have stated that commandernewbie and stumpster are both very logical balance minded individuals,  and have stuck up for unknowns ability to actually be a great team member while still kinda poking a stick at his gameplay (only out of love.. Wink )

but I think I would like to clarify the people I have seen listed preivously in this thread, if i miss someone, sorry.

stumpster.  Stumpster is going to college in a tiny bit, his life will change and he may or may not have as much time to put into this project.  I believe that his dedication and addiction to the finer points of life (eir) would see him through that change.  As a balancer Stumpster has been my right hand in so many tests, for so many dedicated hours.  We have run absolutely every test we could ever come up with, from either side of the coin in so many ways.   All I ever had to do was say, hey nathan come help me test this out.  And he'd put in the time and effort to see if it was unbalanced or working correctly like I assumed.   Afterwards we would make intelligent well thought out reports to the community.   Stumpster also did this a lot on his own, and has always been around and part of the community for the last year and a half.   He was part of the dev team, and without speaking for him on his views of that experience, I believe he was chosen for that position for a very good reason.

Unknown.  I do agree with the majority of peoples assumptions about unknowns 'player mindset' at times.  But I have seen a much broader and deeper side of unknown then the majority have ever witnessed and I know the desire and drive is deep within him to see EIR continue to be the best mod in existence.   To this end, unknown DOES play both sides of the game, he does look at the theories and does craft as good if not better then most of us.  He has a bit of a ruff edge with people who misunderstand him, and he is repeatably misunderstood.  Which I still don't completely understand all the time.   He also understands the game extremely well, and understands the balance issues that are currently there, or will usually concede them either way Wink  I believe unknown will be starting kindergarten this year, while the schooling will be lax on homework it will mean he has to go to bed earlier.  He is also a European so I am sure the wine he gets at dinner will make him groggy, but there is always a warm Belgium waffle waiting on the breakfast table to keep him going through the day! (in all honesty I don't know exactly what he will be doing over the next few months)

Gamerandy. Andy can be a prick, people always say that, and I guess it is kinda true in certain circumstances.  But from what I have seen on a more professional level, andy is good to work with in a team.  Like most of us we need our guidelines and boundaries and I think when they are present andy can do some amazing work, working with andy and unknown on tls was an interesting treat!  Ultimately the two war heads with me in the middle mediating it, as andy or unknown had said.  It worked well, there were no real arguments, there were no grudges or held anger.  We got 3 different opinions and formed 1 out of it, and did the job.  Andy grasps the balance of the game very well, he is a solid player, and I think could work within dash's guidelines well.  Andy's current life situation won't change.  He is almost as old as myself, aww, and well set in life.  Time to burn and desire to burn it!

Lai.  Lai was always the quiet dev team member, well so was stumpster, but lai takes it to another level.  Thats not such a bad thing though, as every team needs a good mix of personalities to have true balance in itself.  Lai was also the only dev member to be publicly active over the last while, phil has been active when requested to be, but not so publicly.  Lai understands the game, was probably one of the best players we had in the community and was one of the more aggressive play styles.   Lai does have a bit of a desire to win more then just enjoying the game, yet I have never personally seen him make any decisions or have any discussions based solely on his play experiences and not those of logical thought.  I don't know Lai's current life schedual, for some reason I remember he is going to medical school soon and needed to step back from gaming to allow for that to take over.

CommanderNewbie.  Newbie was another player that I would hold in most of the same spot light as stumpster.  Newbie has a lot more of an abrasive attitude then stumpster ever could, but he is one of the other few members of the community who repeatedly tried to prove non-partial conversations and would even argue against his own play style if need be.
There are very few 'players' who are able to detach themselves to make impartial comparisons, and newbie would be one of them in my books.


Kolath. I would honestly have called Kolath my advisor for the TLS campaign.  He is mature, well aged (for a semiyounging) and very well spoken.  He has put time in to test when asked, unquestioningly.  He knows the basis of the game and how it works and has been tirelessly active in the community more in a mapping manner then anything else.  Kolath has never truly come off as a balance thinker, but he has never come off as not either.   I personally have unlimited respect for kolath and think that he would be a great team member on any development team by how he thinks and how he acts towards that which he is doing.  Not afraid to share his opinion or to keep things on track.  I believe Kolath is well set in his occupation and his current activity levels will probably not change.

Akranadas. Akranadas was mentioned as a potential member, by akranadas.  I understand where Ak is coming from.  I have seen it in many members, and probably even slightly in myself, to a lesser degree.  Akranadas has gotten a lot of gruff from this community and he has set himself up to be an outsider in the one thing that he still loves, even if he was trying very hard not to admit it.  On a balance side of things Akranadas is very capable and understanding.  On a team side of things I have never seen him be a bad team member.  On a community side of things akranadas gave tirelessly and endlessly.  He did become discouraged and angered when all his hard work was basically ignored with the dev team falling apart, and being left to police a community that was for the most part ungrateful at the time.  Ak, if this is honestly something you want to be taken serious about, you need to please remember WHY people might say the things they have said in this thread, and simply accept that fact and keep trying to show the reason why you should be taken seriously and not fall to a lower level.  I personally respect akranadas a lot, I think given the opportunity he would be a very functional balance member. 

Chaos, Pengu? I really don't know what to say about those nominations.  Chaos is a fantastic person to get to know, I taught the guy everything he knows, almost litterly, but not so much.  Pengu is as well once you get to know him some.  Balance perceptives?  I'm not sure. I don't think anyone should be discredited simply because they are either newer or non vocal about things, and I have seen them both play a lot.  But my opinion is that they are good people, good players.  I don't know how to judge them for being part of a team responsible for the trust and integrity of balancing a mod because I have never seen a situation with them come up.

I think i touched on the majority of the names spoken earlier.

I think a few other names could be mentioned...

Dasnoob.  Das is usually a late night Pacific member of the community, he has a solid life, with a wife and an expensive dog, put it down .. do it! (she won't mind, really)  Dasnoob understands the game, understands the thoughts that go into it, and is more then capable of handling an indepth thought out coversation based on facts and situations rather then his own miserable play skills ... ( heh! )  In all honesty noob is a solid player as well.

Nevyen always had interesting balance ideas and input.  As well as a more mature mindset that goes with the territory.  He is well established in life with a wife and house and all the responsibilities of populating the Australian coast.  He has come and gone from the community in frusteration as have many before and after him, but he stays true to the idea of balance and continuance.  would he be a good choice for this team?  I don't know to be honest, thats up to him to decide if he would even want to be part of it.  I simply mention him because he was always one of the ones most interested in looking beyond themselves and at the game mechanics.  He was one of the few community members that stood with me when dash introduced off map retreats.  The ability to look beyond the comfort zone and expand your vision beyond what is there in front of you is a very important tool for the future of any mod, because by definition alone, a mod expands on what you already have, and changes it.

Ampm, if it wasn't for his inflated self ego, and lack of ability to look at things that don't benefit his play style, his ability to hold a technical and sophisticated conversation would have probably earned him top points for this team... I only mention him because while we all might have skills to make a balance discussion and team work, we might have other attributes that almost instantly remove us from the ability to make the team actually work as well, perceivably.

there are others I am sure who want to be mentioned, but I am not going to do a write up about for one or more reasons... Cozmo and Draygon are the ones that come to mind the most with their pre-learned skill sets.

I would mention why I feel I would be a good choice, but I summed it up very clearly for the main points when I responded to akranadas's post.

I think as far as *I* personally go I have proven enough times that I take testing and balance very serious.  I go to almost unseen ends to test if things are feasable and will even counter argue my own arguments when I am shown to be wrong.  Those are the reasons I would hope I am thought of as capable, amongst others like them.

I know that my time frame will not be changing, I am well established and will continue to be part of this community if I am chosen by dash or not.  I believe that my ability to represent the community as well as think impartially makes me ideal for a balance position and yes, I do very much want to work on this mod and continue it in dash's vision and restrictions, and hopefully one day see him return!



-----
Akranadas shows the truth of this community with his posts.  The desire to continue, the desire to progress, the desire to not die in a stagnated place where everyone has forsworn progress.  This community was born through dash's and ucross's hard work ( there were others, I'm simply going to refer to them for now ).  And as a community this mod has been blessed with support, and even anger at times.  we might not all get along all the time, and the majority of us can act out as if this was real life.  But when you integrate so closely into anything, you have to allow for behaviors, and get past those incidents.   This is about the future, I think its time to let the past be the past, and continue to move on.


remember this is phase 1, pricing.  Its about building trust and proving you can keep within the confines presented to you as well as representing the mod in an impartial manner.   Its not about getting big dreams and going past what is set out before you.  Dash has indicated he is interested in building from the ground up, and will do so in incremental stages if at all.

oh, and I like to write long detailed messages. Wink 

(at least this one is compartmentalized, you can read the write up about the individual or skip it at your leisure.)
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GamerAndy Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 477


« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 01:56:32 pm »

I'm interested in joining the team
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Thtb Offline
The German Guy
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3875


« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2008, 01:57:54 pm »

More like murderd by ucross hard work.. *cough* You forgott me :I
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Dr.Nick Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 271


« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2008, 02:05:48 pm »

If I'm not going to nominate myself ( I can tell you everything underpowered and over powered about airborne =P) then I would nominate Theta and Bodybag because they both know balance pretty well and are fairly unbiased. They've also been around awhile.
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And the winner is......Dr. Nick with his close to 50 Airborne
puddin4 Offline
EIR Regular
Posts: 21


« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2008, 02:06:06 pm »

I'll help test some things, See what i can come up with and help out any way i can.  I am good at finding loop holes and such and sometimes it can;t be fixed, but its counterable.  Who knows :-P
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Bodybag2224-Armor Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 735


« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2008, 02:09:29 pm »

Eh I don't see me/theta/pengu/chaos being part of this lol.
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Pengu Offline
EIR Regular
Posts: 37


« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2008, 02:17:41 pm »

I would be interested.
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Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18379


« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2008, 02:18:45 pm »

I've done it before and I'd be up for it again.

Also I'd like to add, I'm well aware of the perception people have of my ability to balance the game. I feel it's unfortunate and not entirely justified as in the end Ucross made the final call and posted the changes. This made it seem to many that  myself and others hardly contributed to the actual balance (and development) process. And while I won't deny there were instances where Ucross' final call overwrote the balance suggestions put forth by the other members of the team, there were also many occasions were it was still implemented or were we achieved some great compromises that were found successful by the community.


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Bodybag2224-Armor Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 735


« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2008, 02:34:31 pm »

Let me clarify my post. I would love to help, perhaps not with the actual editing of software but with suggestions.
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Draygon Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1636


« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2008, 02:43:48 pm »

I would like to help, was part of the Coding team a while back and would like to be a part of it again, for pricing, per his request.
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DerangedT Offline
EIR Regular
Posts: 8


« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2008, 02:49:32 pm »

I'd like to help. And I agree with Unknown's nomination. He should definitely get access to the backend. He, like Salan, was one of the people to set these things in motion, and should get something back for it.

Besides, he knows what he's doing. He may be an asshole, but he knows what he's doing and can work in a team.
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BoDyBaG2224TLS Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 798


« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2008, 02:49:47 pm »

I would support Draygon on the team. He is calm, and tends to have a clear idea of balance.
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Kolath Offline
Commander, 2nd Infantry Division
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Posts: 2382



« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2008, 04:11:43 pm »

Good point guys.  Yes, the thread topic was ambiguous.  But from now on please be sure to mention if you have technical skills.

There are two components to the pricing issue:

1. Physically editing the database (i.e. mySQL)

2. Coming up with the changing (i.e. balance)

We need 1-2 people to do #1 and a handful to do #2.

Salan, if you want to clean up the thread feel free.  I have to go offline now.
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salan
Guest
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2008, 04:15:54 pm »

moderation is fun!
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salan
Guest
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2008, 04:30:59 pm »

I don't know if i need to re-post but I would really like to help, Like eh?

An interesting side note on the SQL part, is that its not THAT difficult to pick up ..
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Lolto Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 950


« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2008, 05:06:03 pm »

So many good people for the job, I say start off with the lot then pick out the slackers.  I would be a big time slacker but I would help when I can.

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Wildfire
Guest
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2008, 05:36:46 pm »

I'd help. Although I've never done mySQL, if it's just a data-base program, I'd pick it up rather easy as I"ve worked with tons of Databases, hell it was my job in a lot of instances.

I also am real dedicated especially to balance and stuff. I once made a mod for a C&C game Tiberian Sun all by myself took me a year to finally release it and that was because I kept on finding errors and tried to fix them, would and then there would be other issues and I just constantly changed things and I"d apply the same to something like this that I enjoy a lot.

Personally...I think if ur going to do it, best to get at least one person that plays allies and axis a lot and someone who's played quite a bit of both so that you can have some moderation and yet at the same time you can have two divided opinions so if one axis player says to allies "this is op, we need to do this" the allies player can say "but we need this so we can counter this but I'll concede to this" or, as me an allied player, knowing that putting 25% + health on howies is retarded...
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Dr.Nick1 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 54


« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2008, 06:48:00 pm »

I think everyone that has been around for awhile (Like me!) would love to help and help balance things (like me!) and did I mention I can code websites?  Shocked
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Haroquen Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 98



« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2008, 06:49:22 pm »

If Pengu becomes a member of the Balance team, Im willing to join in an effort to counter-balance his bul...I mean, provide thoughtful feedback.
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