eliw00d's Balance Proposal #1

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[eliw00d]

I propose that the Officer be made a core unit, as it should already be, and a new doctrine ability be put in its place. I also propose that the 'Walking Stuka' upgrade be made a core upgrade, and a new doctrine ability there, as well. These are the only units that were changed from core units to doctrine-specific, and only on the Axis side, at that. The Wehrmacht has more core units than the Americans, but that is because they are specialist units. American units are supposed to be jack-of-all-trades, but masters of none - that is why they have fewer units, but more versatility in their upgrades. The Wehrmacht already has a lack of artillery, and without these as core units, they only suffer more. As core units, they will provide all Axis players with a decent selection of artillery that could help in a lot of situations, but not so much as to throw off the balance. I understand this is not vCoH, and it never will be, but why should you take away such valuable core units as these?

I'm not sure what would be a good replacement ability for Officer Training, but what do Officers have to do with The Fatherland, anyways?

However, I believe a good replacement for Walking Stuka could be an improvement to Rocket (Nebels and Stukas) range or something along those lines. Obviously since it would be a tier 2 ability, it wouldn't be significant.

Thoughts?

[Apex]

I agree. These restrictions are too objective and just reduce the possible ways on how to play this game.
And things like only infantry getting triages, or defense not getting repair bunkers, just make no sense. Isnt defense the bunker doctrine?

I strongly urge the devs not to go the same route when developing EiR:Reinforcments. All you do is restrict and reduce variety.

[Sach]

You could have the defense doctrine be a cooldown on the officer arty or an improvement to supervise and let all axis doctrines have normal officers.

Stukkas I think are fine as doctrinal, Axis already gets non-doc neeeebles and all allied arty is doctrinal.

[eliw00d]

You could have the defense doctrine be a cooldown on the officer arty or an improvement to supervise and let all axis doctrines have normal officers.

Stukkas I think are fine as doctrinal, Axis already gets non-doc neeeebles and all allied arty is doctrinal.

I disagree, Stukas have a short barrage, limited damage (even with 50% increase) and are not on par with Calliopes, even though the Calliope is a tier 3. Infantry is the most preferred doctrine, and Howitzers are much more effective and tier 1 to boot!

Stukas already cost an arm and a leg, and won't affect balance too much with their relatively weak barrage in the hands of all Axis players. At least it's not an Axis Calliope.

[Apex]

This is not a question of balance. There is other methods to control the balance of these units, like price etc.. It can even be made different prices for different uses. It is a question of game design.

[BoDyBaG2224TLS]

Stukas aren't as bad as people make them out to be. They have what a 60s cooldown? You can fire more often then a howy/cally. You can move them so the range is basically unlimited.

Sure you have to micro them, but they aren't trash. If I could have mobile arty over static I'd take mobile every time.

[eliw00d]

You could have the defense doctrine be a cooldown on the officer arty or an improvement to supervise and let all axis doctrines have normal officers.

Stukkas I think are fine as doctrinal, Axis already gets non-doc neeeebles and all allied arty is doctrinal.

Nebels are more effective against soft targets, like infantry, for their suppression abilities, but are slow and difficult to use effectively when the front line is constantly changing. The Stuka, on the other hand, is more effective against hard targets, and mobile. Keep in mind that non-defensive players would not get bonuses to their Stuka, so they would not be all-powerful, but would at least open up new doors for other doctrines to flush out some well dug-in targets. If I were to play Blitzkrieg and deploy Stukas, I don't see myself using more than one.

[Tymathee]

i wouldn't mind this and giving Defensive a rocket upgrade in place of the stuka, maybe like increased range on all rocket artillery by say 10% wouldn't be bad.

and officers shouldn't be doctrine specific but maybe for defensive only the defensive doctrine gets mortars?

[Unkn0wn]

Walking stukas being made available to all might actually be adviced if the Brits come into play imo.
Nebelwerfer is too suspicable to counter battery.

[winisez]

replace stukas with a 2-3 use officer artillery. it would the first "light" offmap.

[jackmccrack]

I think the Infanterie Doctrine is fine as is.

[Kotyonok]

I think I agree with Unkn0wn and Tymathee most, but I think that walking Stukas should be a bit more expensive if made avalible like that.

[UnLimiTeD6]

 
Even MORE expensive?
Do you know what they cost?
I think their price is fine, and as such I'm already a minority, but less price? WTF!???
Well, it's your oppinion.
Stukas and Officers for everyone if ony defensive gets heavy rockets and Officer barrage seems fair to me. (Or increase Officer cooldown by 25% and grant Def a decrease).
As long as defensive gets those bonuses, it's fine to have them universially.
But only as long as that.

[Tymathee]

 omg someone agreed with me, what do i do, what do i do?

[eliw00d]

I agree with some of what you've said, Tym. I don't think the mortar barrage should be doctrine specific, though. It is a great ability that can put a wrench in an Allied blob's advance or hold them off long enough for reinforcements to arrive. Making it doctrine specific would render the Officer somewhat useless, then. And honestly, flares come down for it, so it is still avoidable.

I agree with UnLimiTeD, only defensive would receive bonuses to rocket artillery, such as range at tier 2 and damage at tier 3. But, I still think that the Officer's barrage should be universal, it's just a mortar call in, after all. At worst, it will make Allied players think a little bit more about how to approach an Axis position.

Perhaps Officer Training could increase the amount of uses of his barrage and decrease cooldown by a small amount? Officer Training, you see.

[Kotyonok]

omg someone agreed with me, what do i do, what do i do?

lol!
Oh and I was playing axis yesterday...yea...why is it only the teams I play on I lose? >_<
Anyway, I am starting to realize that maybe it shouldn't be doctrine specific, especially for the price of the officer and it's survivability (saw one headshot two airborne the other day though, like, friggin 1337 luger). I'm just thinking that it's not broken so don't fix it. Now, the officer being doctrine specific? Maybe lower the price a -lot- for that ability and keep him expensive but open.

[Unkn0wn]

Oh and I was playing axis yesterday...yea...why is it only the teams I play on I lose? >_<

Come stack with me sometime!

[UnderpoweredAll]

I concur wholeheartedly, why make more axis units doctrine specific which previously were not?

They are both so expensive that they will not be used in large numbers anyways.

[Flack]

I think that the Walking stukas and officer should not be doctrine specific.

Let everyone have the walking stuka, it is not a win button. It quite simply opens up new way to get around static defense. However, let defense get a damage and/or suppression bonus compared to the normal one.

Officer, let everyone have him. But double the cooldown for the mortar barrage for everyone but defensive.

Of course prices should be tweaked for both units to make them balanced and not spamoriffic.

[salan]

its all to do with the meta game, and not having everything accessable to everyone ... arguing that the stuka should not be doctrine specific because it was not in vanilla COH would be the same as arguing that the tiger should be open to everyone even though it was doctrine specific in vanilla.

its that way for a reason (and its not based on vanilla as the game is essentially a rewrite from what vanilla is) which includes balance of doctrines and units on both sides.