Tier 4 Debate: "Unused T4's"

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[Wildfire]

Just wondered what everyone thought of these abilities that dont seem to be used by a lot of people. Note I put it in quotes, so i'm not saying that people dont use them but they aren't as highly "respected" as others.

First

Allies: Armor (since thats the account Im currently on)

Next Generation Vehicles: 50% Turret Rotation, 25% Reload.

Now I know there are quite a few people who use this but not a lot of vets do, most of the time I see new guys that go for NGV. I think one of the reasons that its not a highly used  T4 is because of its cost to get to it.  With 50 starting CP, you're still 5 short, while with Dual Rocket Racks you can use all 50 and have 4 CP left over for Vehicle Factories or Mobility.

Superior Command: 30% Pop increase for entire battle.

Basically, you start off with 32 (33? math is 32.5) CP vs 25 and can end up with 52 total pop while others have 40 pop. Now, I've heard that with tank command having 3 extra pop for every tank, you can have an insane amount of tanks on the field (3 shermans = 36 + 9 extra pop + 30% at 40 could mean a total of 61!!!)  so...what i'm wondering is, is Superior Command OP or is it op with the combination of Tank Command? If so, do we scrap it and get a new one? Maybe switch it with another T4 (maybe OBM?)

Next
Axis Blitz, Terror or Defensive, you decide.

Now remember, this is a try at discussion not a blast, nor talking about OP abilities (except for TC which EVERYONE agrees on) just a discussion about the abilities and why they're underused

[jackmccrack]

What is there to debate?

[AmPmAllied]

Superior Command + Field Repairs = Epic

[Wildfire]

uhh, why aren't they used more and how to fix?

[AmPmAllied]

CP costs, and play more.

[MistenTHA]

CP costs aside, if you want superior command + field repairs to work as intended, you need to be able to last long enough to get enough pop cap to field your sherman battlegroup.

So that's possibly 20 minutes with normal, non-OBM shermans, and no calliopes, playing essentially with infantry until you get enough pop cap to call in your massive sherman battle group.

With that in mind I don't see the allure of this doctrine combo. Especially since I just played a game where 2 shermans, 1 crocodile, 2 m10s and an m8 just died to a pair of pak guns and 2 shreks. Maybe that biases me I dunno

NGV is alright I guess, you shoot faster. But longevity provided by OBM and mobile artillery support provided by calliopes is definitely more attractive.

[jackmccrack]

Dunno what was going through the mind of the person behind the CP Costs for Superior Command except for "I'm going to make this so that no one will choose it"

[Tymathee]

well yeah...because as i stated, it's really crazy, depending on how many tanks you field, it can get insane. i think u can have up to 5 at a time. 5 = 62 40 X 30% = 52 + 3 for each tank, that's 67, so yeah, 5 tanks and one rifle.

[MistenTHB]

Bit iffy if you can live long enough to get enough pop cap to field 4-5 tanks at once. Kinda boring too in a way. Then it seems the whole point of the doctrine set is to last long enough for 1 big sherman push at the end of every game. :O

[jackmccrack]

well yeah...because as i stated, it's really crazy, depending on how many tanks you field, it can get insane. i think u can have up to 5 at a time. 5 = 62 40 X 30% = 52 + 3 for each tank, that's 67, so yeah, 5 tanks and one rifle.

TBH I played Superior Command before it got the cost increase and it wasn't WTFPWN.

[MistenTHB]

Here's an idea.

Superior Command Tier 4. Start of game 32 pop cap.

Calliope Tier 3. Call in 3 Calliopes.

ARTY BARRAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Unkn0wn]

I don't think calliope affects Superior Command. In addition, you'd lose all 3 to a single panther rush, gj =).

[UnLimiTeD]

Superior Command stacks to heavily with Tank Command.
it should be replaced entirely.

[AmPmAllied]

Tank command gives +3 pop permenantly, so if you spam tanks, you can get some huge pop for epic rifle/support/atg spam.

[GammaCommander]

Tank command gives +3 pop permenantly, so if you spam tanks, you can get some huge pop for epic rifle/support/atg spam.

Um. Bug? I'm pretty sure it's suppose to reduce pop per tank by 3 although you still have to deploy the vehicle at its full pop first before the pop reduction kicks in. Maybe it's the combination of Superior Command and Tank Command that bugs the ability. Never used Superior Command.

Tank Command and Superior Command never appealed to me. It was simply too boring of a T4 even if it is outragously powerful.

[Sach]

I played this during TLS and its such a one trick pony its really not worth it. Say you do get 3 tanks on the field, you then have to micro them and one fuck up can usually result in half your armour gone right there. Sure you now have 60 pop to spam rifles with but no armour to support them.

Its not as good as it looks on paper.

[UnLimiTeDTLS2]

2 fuckups are free with field repairs.

[Falcon333]

I'd rather go with 3 Pershings 

[Lai]

Why two tricks when you can have one?

[CommanderNewbie]

Pretty sure I was the only player in EIR to repeatedly use next-gen vehicles.  Doubt anyone noticed I was using it until I told them.