EIRR Secrets Revealed - 7: Veterancy and Reporting battles!

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[Duckordie]

In EiR some time ago, if there was a drop that player went off map.

I think they removed this due the one ho dropping should get his units killed.
By the way, I bet 90% of all drop "hacks" are from Relics nice Server and connection problem with 2 players

[Tymathee]

i agree but the incremental system, if handled the way i think it is, will alleviate all those fears.

[SaintPauli]

This sounds really nice guys. Thumbs up!
(you need to come up with something nice for those pioneers and volks to make it worth it)

Removal of Vet decay will alleviate a bit of the pressure when you are considering playing with a new player.  If you happen to lose the fight, and maintain your units life's, they don't get punished for you playing that game in the first place.

Of course on the flip side, you no longer gain any exp for units that don't actually EARN their exp fighting.  Time to use those Engineers!

I think the part about not gaining vet for winning the game is going to be equally important. Winning or losing will now get you something out of the game, if you as a player fight well and keep your stuff alive. 

In EiR some time ago, if there was a drop that player went off map.

I think they removed this due the one ho dropping should get his units killed.

I don’t think you are reading this one correctly. Salan wrote: “dropping your game will not make them magically survive something that ultimately caused them to die”. This refers to the incremental reports that the persistency system receives from the game. The retreating could still be in. In fact I think it should still be in since a dropper often takes other with him. 

[Baine]

Ehm, what about units that gain vet in the battle?
If you start with a Vet 1, nearly Vet 2 sniper, and you kill alot with him and in EiR he would have gained Vet 2 in the middle of the battle, would he gain it in EiRR aswell?
Or will it stay at Vet 1 until the end of the battle and then you can upgrade it to Vet 2? (losing the gained exp it would have gotten at Vet 2)

[Killer344]

engies are going to be a hell of a nightmare to vet... those retards get supressed even when 1 volk focuses fire on them -.- .

[Schultz]

Yeah, we are trying to make all vet bonuses something that you would actually want for a unit.

So what about all those units being tied up to lvl 1 or 2, all that vet Also.

Not sure what you mean.

Do you think that you are making this a bit too casual as far as winning/losing, risk/gain goes?

Casual?  CASUAL?  Jeez, I thought this was going a bit hardcore tbh.

Yeah sorry, i meant all that vet being lost because you either dont have the PP to invest or dont want to anyway.

Also yeah, what we get basically is winning and losing having no impact ;p
Thats best for casual play.
But what about a competitive persistent war ? Maybe we kinda jump into the opposite extreme ? Or is it my idea.

[Schultz]

Its from a realism perspective as well. A company gets beaten down 10 times in a row. Why does it end up having a vet 3 tiger, because the player plays in such a carebear manner, that as soon he gets a few kills he retreats it off field ?

[suckisucki]

EIR:R Secrets Revealed - 7: Veterancy

In the current version of Europe in Ruins there is no cost structure for Veterancy.  This is causing companies to be full of fully vetted troops, with no cost incurred and no negatives to be had.  This fact has a very large impact on those who do not have a vetted company be it new players, returning players, or casual players.

that is not the problem...
when vet is not concentrated on one side of a battle then there are no issues with

EiR:R plans to change this circumstance.

We will be implementing a Veterancy unlock system with Reinforcements.  A unit is basically unable to obtain any further vet once it reaches the vet 2 threshold,  It will hover 1 point short of vet 2, unless the player buys the training on a unit per unit basis; aka upgrade the unit to vet 2.  This is repeated again 1 point shy of vet 3.

that means axis inf vet that really do something (vet2++) costs where allies inf vet1 (25% buff) dont costs something

We understand that having to invest your hard earned Prestige into vet unlocks means that you indeed need the vet to be worth the investment.  To this end, we have reworked the vet tables completely in a more standardized outlook, and plan a full release of them when reinforcements goes live.

we will see...

but loosing vet2++ hurts now and i expect more vet griefing companies and more people crying because of loosing a vet unit...and more people avoiding to play with new players

[SaintPauli]

Its from a realism perspective as well. A company gets beaten down 10 times in a row. Why does it end up having a vet 3 tiger, because the player plays in such a carebear manner, that as soon he gets a few kills he retreats it off field ?

I real life you also learn from defeat… Or so I have heard.

[Schultz]

I real life you also learn from defeat… Or so I have heard.

[/quote]
Theres also something like broken moral that really fucks up with the soldiers,eh 

Anyway i hate to spam this thread guys but my point is this, how much one will risk to win a game ?

[Tymathee]

Ehm, what about units that gain vet in the battle?
If you start with a Vet 1, nearly Vet 2 sniper, and you kill alot with him and in EiR he would have gained Vet 2 in the middle of the battle, would he gain it in EiRR aswell?
Or will it stay at Vet 1 until the end of the battle and then you can upgrade it to Vet 2? (losing the gained exp it would have gotten at Vet 2)

kind of a good question but im going to have to guess yes that you lose all that exp unfortunately. i dont think this w/b that much of a problem, just a lot of people with huge vet 1 companies and vet 2's and 3's being more special.

engies are going to be a hell of a nightmare to vet... those retards get supressed even when 1 volk focuses fire on them -.- .

haha agreed. i just got my other vet 2 engie killed in my inf company im so hurt...workin on another though. i've had up to 4 at a time though

that means axis inf vet that really do something (vet2++) costs where allies inf vet1 (25% buff) dont costs something

wait what? you mean the Rec Dmg 0.8, Rec Sup 0.75 at vet 2 is nothing? ditto health regen? wow dude, talk about bias. think of what 25% less supp on a vet 2 pio does for flamethrowers...

but loosing vet2++ hurts now and i expect more vet griefing companies and more people crying because of loosing a vet unit...and more people avoiding to play with new players

that will never change and hell, why not cripple ur opponent, this is war and more than likely you'll be playing that guy gain, like the saying goes "if you use it, you'll lose it" or maybe its "if u dont to lose it, don't use it" u get the premise.

[suckisucki]

that means axis inf vet that really do something (vet2++) costs where allies inf vet1 (25% buff) dont costs something

wait what? you mean the Rec Dmg 0.8, Rec Sup 0.75 at vet 2 is nothing? ditto health regen? wow dude, talk about bias. think of what 25% less supp on a vet 2 pio does for flamethrowers...

that was not what i said read again

i said you have to pay for vet2 and if vet is not changed rifles get 25%harder to hit on vet1 where you have to pay nothing just play 1 or 2 games

to really benefit from axis inf vet you need to get vet2 that means you have to pay for every single inf unit PP to reach vet2

[ImmanioEiR]

Note that it's been stated that they're revamping the vet bonuses to go with this change. So, don't whine about the respective vet bonuses until you know what they actually are.

Anyway, what I'm wondering is if it's possible to "pre-buy" the vet upgrades. Meaning, can you buy the vet upgrade for a unit because you expect it to reach (and exceed) the threshold during your next battle, so that it a) gains the new vet bonus immediately upon getting enough xp during the battle, and b) doesn't "waste" xp because it's reached the limit. My guess based on the given information is that it's not possible, and it will also involve a risk of wasting PP on a unit that doesn't get the xp after all (and maybe dies), but it could be an interesting possibility.

[Smithy17]

I agree, prebuying the upgrade so you can vet up ingame would be a good way to do it.

[MannfredvonRitter]

Let me break down what this will do to the current situation.

Vet is more precious.

People take steps to protect precious vet.

They stomp more noobs, refuse to play with noobs and stack more to protect what's even more precious.

You will see:
More vet hunting
More rage
More stacking

More of everything which is negative.

I hate to be the naysayer, but I can't see any positives in this except the intention which is clearly positive.

You escalate the points in a battle even more than previously, as with purchasing units, you raise the stakes. People will stack more, losing a game means they lost:

Finite Units
Finite Vet
Points that could've been put into Resources
Doctrines (if not maxed)

[MannfredvonRitter]

as an addendum:

Stacking/Stomping Means:
You keep vet and thus get more vet
You keep rare units and get more rare units

Certain 'rare' units will disappear, that is the less survivable ones, certain more survivable units will become as common as now.
PP on calliopes won't reduce their number. It will reduce StuH numbers by comparison, just as an example.

This won't stop armies composed entirely of vet, just take them slightly longer to obtain than previously, but they will still exist and still gain those vet3 AB from stomping just as before.

[MistenTHA]

engies are going to be a hell of a nightmare to vet... those retards get supressed even when 1 volk focuses fire on them -.- .

This is a valid point. How will support units such as engineers/pios and jeeps/scouts gain veterancy if they have to rely on fighting? They suck at fighting. Kettenkrad and Bergetiger also spring to mind. The Brit HQ support trucks as well. The axis officer?

Will they be able to gain veterancy through using their support abilities? These units ought to have some way to gain veterancy without needing to resort to combat.

[fldash]

Except players that stack and play against newbs will have their PP gain grinded to a halt as their battles will be considered un-fair.  Players that play with newbs will gain more PP be able to replace troops faster and eventually pass those that choose to stack.

[suckisucki]

what is your plan against quick PP/vet gain of people stacking with a smurf in their lines?

i would do the thing from the other side..means playing against noobs give you much lesser exp and much lesser PP than playing against good teams

ok the "noobs" can be smurfs but it is not possible then scaring away new players by stomping them with a stacked team where one or two players are just smurfs

and to play smurfs they have still sthe disadvantage in doctrine abilities RBs and PP/vet

[fldash]

Most likely one rating per IP address...   That includes the IP address from the game report as well, so you can't simply use a proxy to access the website and think you are being clever...  You'd have to find a way to proxy COH as well.  Your rating is based upon all your accounts and not deletable. 

Edit: Updated to reflect accurate information...