My initial balance thought with EIR:R

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[GamerAndy]

Maybe I didnt make it clear, but the only reason I responded to the post was because somebody said that Stickies were the same as Treadbreaker, and I wanted to point out that they are in fact not

What you do with the information is absolutely up to you, I'm not advocating for or against any balance changes as I havn't played the game - Merely pointing on the differences in the abilities

[Sach]

Sure tone down the % as stated in prior post, but then again i dont see Pe and Whermacht players screaming about tank shock from tanks with heavy armour, guns, machineguns and a flame thrower... nor about at emplacements that do more damage, can take more hts and are now mobile, when thier "counterpart" can and has been engine damaged by a sniper, takes setup time and has less range... oh and cant auto heal by getting up and going for a walk. and lets not mention a certain aa gu that rips 90% of the PE vehicles to shreds.

Surely that just proves the point then. People aren't discussing these things so they are probably fairly balanced. People are discussing treadbreaker so theres probably something wrong.

[BigDick]

either field repair or OBM affected the damaged parts of a tank first

maybe it is possible to change it that engine damage engine destroyed and imobilized is fixed after 1 or 2 minutes of repairing....and dont need repair to full health

[gamesguy1]

They may have fewer choices, but they are all(except Piats, which are garbage) far superior options to other factions...Fireflies are the best tank, 17 pdrs are the best AT gun....Brens mean you can't get close, just like ATHT's...I don't see how you can't see that.  It's like they said earlier...treadbreaker doesn't destroy the main gun or the secondary gun(if it has an mg on it), and hardly does any damage.  Its not hard to repair if you can get support up to push the AT back.  Bren stops the main gun and the secondary gun(albeit after a delay), but doesn't do any permanent damage.  Both essentially mean you can't just bumrush in tanks.

Lol, did you seriously just mention 17 pounders?  Theyre completely worthless.  Takes way too long to setup and gets decrewed by one incendiary mortar shell.

For all intents and purposes Brits have 1 real AT weapon, the firefly, which you can only buy 2 max and if you do takes up 70% of your fuel.

ATHT snipes from 45 range, button has 25 range on an infantry unit.  You can kite button, you can't kite treadbreaker.   Between the marder/shrek/panther/jagd PE isn't exactly strapped for AT options, why do they need a 45 range insta-immobolize button?

Sure tone down the % as stated in prior post, but then again i dont see Pe and Whermacht players screaming about tank shock from tanks with heavy armour, guns, machineguns and a flame thrower... nor about at emplacements that do more damage, can take more hts and are now mobile, when thier "counterpart" can and has been engine damaged by a sniper, takes setup time and has less range... oh and cant auto heal by getting up and going for a walk. and lets not mention a certain aa gu that rips 90% of the PE vehicles to shreds.

Tank shock doesn't work on the croc, at all, I tried it half a dozen times and not a single time has it worked.  Its also extremely expensive and take 2pp just to buy the first one.   I'd much rather have a tiger for example than a churchill croc.

Are you serious with your statement about emplacements?  As it stands the emplacements are completely worthless.   They take way too long to setup and when they do setup they just get mortared.  And allies cannot win a mortar duel against the mortar HT period.

If you're silly enough to run a PE HT into range of a stationary gun with only 45 range that takes a year and a half to setup, you deserved to lose it.

[Nevyen]

gamesguy your opinion is valued, tone down the passion a little mate

[Akranadas]

Maybe I didnt make it clear, but the only reason I responded to the post was because somebody said that Stickies were the same as Treadbreaker, and I wanted to point out that they are in fact not

What you do with the information is absolutely up to you, I'm not advocating for or against any balance changes as I havn't played the game - Merely pointing on the differences in the abilities

I never said they were the EXACTLY same. I said they have the same effects (as I mentioned earlier in my posts, the specific nature of the treadbreaker and sticky to disable tanks), not essentially the EXACT SAME. LOOK, read the entirety of my posts next time, instead of taking things out of context. Contrary what you think, I am not a moron and I do know what I am talking about.

Sticky Bomb and TreadBreaker are the same. The have the same effects; chance to damage engine ect; not a true at weapon, just a slow tank weapon.

Button requires the squad with the Bren to stand there, for the whole duration of the ability to do it's job. During this time, if you kill the squad, the effect is gone. Unlike tread breaker and sticky, if you kill the unit, the effect is still on your tank until you repair it; like wise you do not need to repair after being buttoned.

[gamesguy1]

You don't even need to kill the button squad to end the button.  If you can interrupt the continuous fire in any way, including pushing the bren squad around with a halftrack or a scout car, the effect ends.

Button is oh so easy to avoid if you have any sort of support for the tank.   Treadbreaker, on the otherhand, is instant and has nearly twice the range of button, its nearly impossible to avoid.

[Vondrakin]

huh how about that, i forgot what i was going to say

[Schultz]

How this got derailed so much as to end up being about if they can be compaired to each other per se, is beyond me.
Yeah button up spam does really adds to the spice of life..

Anyway why did mines were taken out of sappers, why did you dodge that one ?

[GUTB]

One thing is very clear: if the Brits are to be viable with their current play mechanics, they need have their nerfs reversed, and then buffed significantly.

I've seen enough games now realize that Brit emplacements are almost completely useless, Brits struggle with armor except with a Firefly, and tommies get overwhelmed as the game goes on. Meanwhile, Wher and PE are filled to the brim with AT and so Cromwells go down fast.

[stumpster]

Anyway why did mines were taken out of sappers, why did you dodge that one ?

Honestly, we forgot about them.    Should be fixed soon.

[Schultz]

One thing is very clear: if the Brits are to be viable with their current play mechanics, they need have their nerfs reversed, and then buffed significantly.

I've seen enough games now realize that Brit emplacements are almost completely useless, Brits struggle with armor except with a Firefly, and tommies get overwhelmed as the game goes on. Meanwhile, Wher and PE are filled to the brim with AT and so Cromwells go down fast.

Exactly and this is why i said what i said.
Brits lack efficient AT capabilities and its apparent in every game. Hiding behind button up spam, "because they have to" is not a valid argument.
And while we argue pointlessly brit players get steamrolled by EFFICIENT at. Schreks and paks.

Maybe theres time to aknowledge that going hand to hand with vcoh isnt whats best for the mod, and that sooner or later the devs hands need to get dirty with balance that unfortunately relic didnt give a shit about.

Anyway why did mines were taken out of sappers, why did you dodge that one ?

Honestly, we forgot about them.    Should be fixed soon.

Yeah that was weird lol.

[Killer344]

I haven´t lost a single game with the brits yet lol.... just don´t use emplacements, they own without them.

[Two]

post a replay, prove it, course not against noobs or with an american partner. I dont use emplacements and they still suck.

[Killer344]

Why not with an american partner, do you realize that doesn´t make any sense at all?

[Khorney]

well, ideally British should be a viable faction on their own, without having to rely on the US to plug blatent gaps in their armoury. as Unlimit3d put it 'is playing vs 3 brit an exploit lol'

[Two]

americans own with americans, so brits should own with brits, and even with a US partner all you do is support :/

[Flashpoint Gold]

Surely that just proves the point then. People aren't discussing these things so they are probably fairly balanced. People are discussing treadbreaker so theres probably something wrong.

Excuse me? Thats almost like saying that a murder that was televised on the news is so much worse than one that is not just because it wasn't talked about, and the one that wasn't could of been a multiple homicide.

Sorry, point unproven.

PS- You could also add in alot of other things in there, like comparing gang fights that are on the news all the time to genocide in Africa because its recently been televised, yet its been going on forever.

[Sach]

yeah except the news is a lot different to a public forum. I bet in the marketplace down the road they were talking about the genocide where as they probably weren't discussing the homocide on the news.

[Flashpoint Gold]

Why do we come on to the forums then? If not to become informed of whats going on in this community? Why do people watch the news? To be informed of whats going on in the community that the station is based on, whether it be town, state, country, or world based.

But anyways, thats not the point. The point is that just because it hurts your strategy doesn't mean its OP. PE basically needs TB, to help halt armor advances or to stop a pesky tank that is trying to use guerilla tactics(which work well against PE normally and now just an increased effectiveness with the EiRR playstyle). Or, there is another reason which is the best reason why we should have it: Vet Hunting. Vet 3 Pershing? It ain't getting away from this battle. Muaaaahahahahahaahah! jk,jk But, vet hunting could/will become a major problem with TB.

For example, Tank Reapers hurt my Blitz doctrine pretty bad and kill my Blitz strategy. But, you don't see me screaming OP?

Stickies basically do the same thing than TB, but aren't the same. I don't scream OP about stickies.

But lets compare the two:

Survival of the units using them:
TB = glass
stickies = wood

Range:
TB = Tank sniper
stickies = "In your face mothatruckah!!!"

Cooldown and also what the unit has to do/can do after use:
TB = I used it once now I have to hide for like 3-4 minutes unless a random jeep or bren comes around
stickies = I used it, but its alright I'll just deal with the infantry here while my armor/AT finish the job and I can use it again in about 20-30 seconds

Arc and location:
TB: Basically open field and has to have a straight shot
stickies: "Over the hedge and through the woods, away we shall go!" (A song that I tweeked the lyrics to.) Look at us being all cool and such hanging out in a building, "Look! A tank driving by us!" *stickie* "Lol, pwned."

Speed of units:
stickies = Run, Forest, Run!!!
TB = Drive, Forest, Drive!!!

Retreatability of units:
stickies = See ya, I'm gona take some R&R! Double foresting all the way off the map.
TB = Omg, I'm drunk and my commander has to point and click me. Omg, a rifle bullet just hit me and it made my drunk driving worse(out of control)! I need to rest... Look a building!!! I'll just park infront of it. *Vrooooooooo-BOOM!*

Price of units:
TB = I'm like a girlfriend! And, I'm only worth all that much for the banging(TB) every once in a while.
stickies = I'm like a good buddy. We only pay a little bit to hang out and I actually do alot of other stuff than just keeping the fat chicks away(tanks) with my slabs of raw meat(stickies), but I only have so many slabs.

I'm pretty sure I could add more, but I'm tired atm...