Veterancy Update

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[panzerjager1943]

Commando smoke recharge implemented, Accuracy does not make a difference on Artilery. This is because Accuracy on artillery is already 1.0 all ranges; the spread of Artillery is determined within the firing ability and so cannot be tuned through Veterancy. However a new ability can be given at Vet2/3 which replaces the old one. I'll consider it. Bren Carrier MMG does not get more range, but instead 1.2x health.

[salan]

ah well i don't know what to call it, spread is probably what i meant.

[UnLimiTeD]

No, the ostwind bursts 3 rounds, has a cooldown of 1-0.5, then bursts another 3 of which only 2 are fired because the magazine holds only 5 shots.
Then there is the reload.

So;

MMG Carrier (health is so low 1.1% won't help)
-Vet1 Recieved Accuracy 0.8
-Vet2 Damage 1.1, Speed 1.15, Health 1.1, Range 1.1
-Vet3 Accuracy 1.2, Recieved Damage 0.85

So Health is unimportant, but recieved damage is fine? explain that a little?
Health would effectively add to the effect of damage resistance.[/s] Changed already.

So, salan, what if you actually do NOT wan't to hit something?
Higher spread means bigger chance to hit something you don't know where it is, makes for better 'scouting' and area denial and fortifies it's position as an artillery unit, not a surgical strike support weapon.
Well, it's your choice, but I would rather give it a higher firerate to increase the chance of evenly destroying the area (no room to evade) or granting it an extra shot, doing basically the same.

[VictorTarget]

Yeah, I always have a priest in my company, it's my primary linebreaker.  It's not THAT bad at hitting targets.  And anyway, it helps me ghost them with the priest.  I'd much prefer the addition of supercharged shells instead of either, though.  

As for a faster rate of fire, I'm all for that.  It makes the Priest a beast, though, considering.  If it fires faster, then it gets out of there faster...that makes a priest an absolute terror to find, and does more damage.  Vet 3, sure, but not vet 2.  People already have trouble chasing down the Good Father as it is!

[panzerjager1943]

British Infantry gain a Regeneration at Vet2. Bren Carrier Vet2 bonus reduced from 1.2 to 1.15 (was originally 1.1.)
MMG Carrier at Vet3 should have roughly 330 hitpoints (hitpoints/recieved damage modifier should simulate health.) 330 hitpoints vs. Vet0 MMG carrier, 245. That's 1 more Pak shot or Schreck hit etc.

[VictorTarget]

No, the ostwind bursts 3 rounds, has a cooldown of 1-0.5, then bursts another 3 of which only 2 are fired because the magazine holds only 5 shots.
Then there is the reload.

So, salan, what if you actually do NOT wan't to hit something?
Higher spread means bigger chance to hit something you don't know where it is, makes for better 'scouting' and area denial and fortifies it's position as an artillery unit, not a surgical strike support weapon.
Well, it's your choice, but I would rather give it a higher firerate to increase the chance of evenly destroying the area (no room to evade) or granting it an extra shot, doing basically the same.

The priest is neither of these.  In WW2, the British artillery was the best NOT because it was used in the heavy-handed, massed barrages that most americans and germans used, but because it was used to be on-target fast and accurate, then ceased.  This made it MORE effective because it fell, killed, and by the time you were in cover, it was over. 

Faster rate of fire, lower spread, longer range, any of these is fine by me.  But I think that whatever is decided needs to remember how these things were really used.  It was much like current air superiority is used today, you call it in WHEN you need it, not to pound a position needlessly. 

[salan]

So Health is unimportant, but recieved damage is fine? explain that a little?
Health would effectively add to the effect of damage resistance.[/s] Changed already.

it already had the survivability buffs, it needed SOMETHING else imo

So, salan, what if you actually do NOT wan't to hit something?
Higher spread means bigger chance to hit something you don't know where it is, makes for better 'scouting' and area denial and fortifies it's position as an artillery unit, not a surgical strike support weapon.

true, very valid point!

[scrapking]

I like Salan's ideas here quite a bit.

[agtmadcat]

I've given up on 25lbers and PPriests for the time being because they can't hit anything, so I really agree about somehow reducing the spread. Perhaps, as you mentioned giving it a new ability, there could be a new ability at vet2 (or something), which fires a three-round burst with greatly increased accuracy, instead of the normal six-shot burst that can't even seem to hit buildings!   It might make sense to have it be just two rounds, so the damage output is much much less, but rounds fall right where you want them. Heck, if the shot was going to be bang-on, I'd settle for firing one round. It'd give the British a good counter to mortars and 88s, something they don't currently have. I've tried to counter-battery manually with a 25lber, and found my shots spreading an embarrassing amount.

[UnLimiTeD]

How about using doctrinal 'Counterbattery' instead?
Think in the big picture.

[salan]

Question on support weapons and their survivability.

With us having to PAY for vet levels, is there any way to give a resistence to flame to support weapons? mgs, mortars, at guns die INCREASINGLY fast vrs any sort of flame damage.

instead of the setup changes, is it possible to have a minor buff at vet 2 that reduces flame damage, and a slightly bigger one at vet 3 that further reduces it? aiming for a 25% reduction at max.

this wouldn't buff it against any other type of damage, they are not that easy to get to higher level.  in 2 years I can still count the amount of vet 3 mgs i have seen on maybe 2 fingers, and probably the amount of vet 3 mortars which were not defensive +vet doctrine on 1 hand.  At guns... do achieve it because they kill bigger units.

[UnLimiTeD]

Buffing resistance against a single damage, while I don't think it's possible, it punishing players using them correctly.
Why flames?
Nobody want's PE to get a buff vs. Flames, and they need it more.

[salan]

PE


Scout Car (this is equivalent of their bike/jeep, should not get the armor)
-Vet1 Recieved Accuracy 0.8,
-Vet2 Damage 1.1, Speed 1.15, New Armour Type (Puma), Detection +5
-Vet3 Accuracy 1.2, Recieved Damage 0.85, Sight +10

Marder III
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.83
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.85, Penetration 1.1, Rotation speed 10% faster
-Vet3 Damage 1.25, Penetration 1.15, Sight +5

Hetzer
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.9
-Vet2 Penetration 1.1, Accuracy 1.15, Recieved Damage 0.9
-Vet3 Recieved Penetration 0.8, Sight +5, Rotation Speed 10% faster

Flakvierling
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.8
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.8, Penetration 1.15, Build time -25%
-Vet3 Damage 1.25, Penetration 1.15, Range +5

Flak 88
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.87
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.8, Sight +5, Build time -25%
-Vet3 Damage 1.25, Penetration 1.15, Sight +10

[salan]

Buffing resistance against a single damage, while I don't think it's possible, it punishing players using them correctly.
Why flames?
Nobody want's PE to get a buff vs. Flames, and they need it more.

pe don't get mgs, mortars or at guns.

[salan]

sorry for having them in separate threads before.

AMERICAN

HMG Squad
-Vet1 Suppression 1.15
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.8, Accuracy 1.15, 10% fire resistance
-Vet3 Health 1.1, Cover Ability*, 15% fire resistance

Mortar Squad
-Vet1 Suppression 1.15
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.8, Accuracy 1.15, Range +10 (mortar only, not carbines), 10% fire resistance
-Vet3 Health 1.1, Cover Ability*,15% fire resistance

57mm AT Gun
-Vet1 Speed 1.1, Recieved Damage 0.85
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.85, Penetration 1.15, 10% fire resistance
-Vet3 Damage 1.25, Penetration 1.15, Sight +5, 15% fire resistance

Quad
-Vet1 Recieved Accuracy 0.8
-Vet2 Damage 1.1, Speed 1.15, *Moving ability
-Vet3 Accuracy 1.2, Recieved Damage 0.85

M8 Greyhound
-Vet1 Recieved Accuracy 0.8
-Vet2 Damage 1.1, Speed 1.15, *Vehicle Cover+
-Vet3 Accuracy 1.2, Recieved Damage 0.85

Crocodile
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.9
-Vet2 Penetration 1.1, Accuracy 1.15, Recieved Damage 0.9, Speed 1.1, Damage 1.1
-Vet3 Recieved Penetration 0.8, Sight +5, Damage 1.15

Pershing
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.935
-Vet2 Penetration 1.1, Accuracy 1.15, Health 1.1,
-Vet3 Recieved Penetration 0.8, Sight +5, Health 1.125 (needs a 4th buff at tier3 same as tiger and KT)

Howitzer
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.9, Damage 1.1
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.85, Recharge -20s, Range 1.1 , -25% build time
-Vet3 Counterbattery (if we can get it to work), Damage 1.1, Penetration 2.0, Recharge -20s

Wehrmacht

MG42
-Vet1 Suppression 1.15, Regeneration
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.8, Accuracy 1.15,  10% fire resistance
-Vet3 Health 1.1, Cover Ability*, 15% fire resistance

Mortar
-Vet1 Suppression 1.15, Regeneration
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.8, Accuracy 1.15, 10% fire resistance
-Vet3 Health 1.1, Cover Ability*, 15% fire resistance

PAK 38 ATG
-Vet1 Speed 1.1, Recieved Damage 0.85, Regeneration
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.85, Penetration 1.15, 10% fire resistance
-Vet3 Damage 1.25, Penetration 1.15, Sight +5, 15% fire resistance

Ostwind (will penetrate its targets without the buff, its not a anti tank vehicle)
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.9
-Vet2 Penetration 1.1, Accuracy 1.15, Recieved Damage 0.9, reload 0.9
-Vet3 Recieved Penetration 0.8, Sight +5, Reload 0.9,

Flak 88
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.83, Regeneration
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.8, Sight +5, -25% build time
-Vet3 Damage 1.25, Penetration 1.15, Sight +10

British

ALL INFANTRY/SUPPORT WEAPONS: Regeneration vet2, less then  wehrmacht.

Commandos
-Vet1 Recieved damage 0.85
-Vet2 Accuracy 1.15, Recieved Accuracy 0.9, Smoke Cooldown -50s
-Vet3 Health 1.1, Assault Bonus*, Damage 1.1, Extra Smoke, Smoke Cooldown -50s

Mortar Commando
-Vet1 Suppression 1.15
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.8, Accuracy 1.15, Range +10 (mortar only, not stens), 10% fire resistance
-Vet3 Health 1.1, Cover Ability*, 15% fire resistance

HMG Commando
-Vet1 Suppression 1.15
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.8, Accuracy 1.15, 10% fire resistance
-Vet3 Health 1.1, Cover Ability*, 15% fire resistance

MMG Carrier (health is so low 1.1% won't help)
-Vet1 Recieved Accuracy 0.8
-Vet2 Damage 1.1, Speed 1.15, Health 1.1, Range 1.1
-Vet3 Accuracy 1.2, Recieved Damage 0.85


Priest (accuracy is what this unit NEEDS, already has 2 survivability buffs (recieved damage, recieved accuracy)
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.85, Damage 1.1
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.85, Recharge -20s, Range 1.1, Speed 1.1, rate of fire 0.8
-Vet3 Counterbattery (if we can get it to work), Damage 1.1, Penetration 2.0, Recharge -20s, Speed 1.1

PE


Scout Car (this is equivalent of their bike/jeep, should not get the armor)
-Vet1 Recieved Accuracy 0.8,
-Vet2 Damage 1.1, Speed 1.15, New Armour Type (Puma), Detection +5
-Vet3 Accuracy 1.2, Recieved Damage 0.85, Sight +10

Marder III
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.83
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.85, Penetration 1.1, Rotation speed 10% faster
-Vet3 Damage 1.25, Penetration 1.15, Sight +5

Hetzer
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.9
-Vet2 Penetration 1.1, Accuracy 1.15, Recieved Damage 0.9
-Vet3 Recieved Penetration 0.8, Sight +5, Rotation Speed 10% faster

Flakvierling
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.8
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.8, Penetration 1.15, Build time -25%
-Vet3 Damage 1.25, Penetration 1.15, Range +5

Flak 88
-Vet1 Recieved Damage 0.87
-Vet2 Recieved Accuracy 0.8, Sight +5, Build time -25%
-Vet3 Damage 1.25, Penetration 1.15, Sight +10

what i would propose.

[VictorTarget]

I'm still on the fence about the priest.  I'm going to push for the RoF increase during a barrage, because that's really how the priest shines.  Let it get the shots off, even with semi-horrid accuracy, but let it move about.  With cooldown bonuses and RoF increase, it becomes a very beautiful tool.  That's something I can work with.

[salan]

I'm still on the fence about the priest.  I'm going to push for the RoF increase during a barrage, because that's really how the priest shines.  Let it get the shots off, even with semi-horrid accuracy, but let it move about.  With cooldown bonuses and RoF increase, it becomes a very beautiful tool.  That's something I can work with.

actually you know, if it shot all its shots faster, it wouldn't matter if they spread like they do, they would still have higher % chance to actually hit something before they moved.

i'll change it.

[CommanderNewbie]

Good idea with the flame resistance vet!  I just had to say that.

*light-bulb*

If I were doing a doctrine, I'd probably put it in as some kind of doctrine ability instead.

[UnLimiTeD]

What is there a good idea.
It's like Giving Everything sniperresistance.
Generic, unintuitive, impossible.
Well, I'll be fine with it.
Even though support weapons really don't at all need flame resistance.

[AmPmAllied]

The Hetzer already rotates quite fast, it can track a Stuart. What it needs is to do some extra damage.