Stuh42 Requires Balancing - Projectile Speed

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[Killer344]

They never sucked.

[eliw00d]

I'm sorry, maybe I missed something, but when was the StuH projectile changed? I don't see any documentation on this.

[LordMalgoroth]

Haha. Let me get this straight...

If you scout ahead to locate enemy At positions, then flank and rape everything because you know where everything is and where it's facing... THAT'S when the Stuh is OP.

When you use tactics... THAT'S when the thing is "too cost effective".

Do you see how poor your reasoning is?

If I'm a "nub" at this game then you're a "nub" at logic.

As it is, the Stuh is fine. Stugs and Stuhs both receive good buffs in the as yet unreleased patch, so any cost changes should take effect well after the patches release when the effect on balance is made clear.

I'm going to go ahead and take this time to call bullshit on your claim that the Stuh just utterly rapes AT guns. Show me a replay or else I'm going to have to assume you're greatly exaggerating in order to prove your point.

In a one on one slug fest (where tactics is not a factor) IF the Stuh wins it will be so low on health as to be rendered ineffective due to its poor condition and the need to spend the next 20 minutes repairing.   
Quit making it sound like this thing is the new post OF ranger squad.
 

[Unkn0wn]

Malgoroth, just for the record, AFAIK some of those changes were already implemented. This includes the StuH projectile speed increase .

[LordMalgoroth]

Is the increase to the frontal armor already implemented? Because that's what I was referring to when mentioning a price change. I suppose it would have helped if I mentioned that specifically 

The projectile speed increase was desperately needed. I don't know if it's the quality of player you find in automatch, but you were a moron for ever buying a Stuh in that game. They rarely if ever paid for themselves.

[31stPzGren]

If you scout ahead to locate enemy At positions, then flank and rape everything because you know where everything is and where it's facing... THAT'S when the Stuh is OP.

When you use tactics... THAT'S when the thing is "too cost effective".

Do you see how poor your reasoning is?

I'm saying the stuh can rape without the projectile speed increase. It is pretty good already, just use it properly. It is cost effective as it is.

Right now with the projectile speed increase, a nub can just charge the stuh up on the road and still gib any AT gun within 1 or 2 shots, where as previously you will be punished stiffly for that.

English Comprehension is a vital skill, go re-read my arguments.

As it is, the Stuh is fine. Stugs and Stuhs both receive good buffs in the as yet unreleased patch, so any cost changes should take effect well after the patches release when the effect on balance is made clear.

Stug received a buff for the turret turn time increase which is much needed as compared to projectile speed increase for stuh.

I'm going to go ahead and take this time to call bullshit on your claim that the Stuh just utterly rapes AT guns. Show me a replay or else I'm going to have to assume you're greatly exaggerating in order to prove your point.

Please use your BRAIN before you say anything. EiRR has reset the battle files. I have the replay file but how are you going to watch the replay?

Its a commonly known fact among the players in EiR that a stuh kills an ATG in one shot 80-90% of the time, barring the rest where somethings the crew survives by a sliver of HP or cover BARELY saved them.

In a one on one slug fest (where tactics is not a factor) IF the Stuh wins it will be so low on health as to be rendered ineffective due to its poor condition and the need to spend the next 20 minutes repairing.   
Quit making it sound like this thing is the new post OF ranger squad.

Thats where you're FUCKING WRONG. One shot can kill all the crew of an ATG instantly.

I won't bother explaining all the mechanics of vCoH, damage models etc. to you because you do not understand and do not CARE to understand them before you jump into this balance discussion.

The projectile speed increase was desperately needed. I don't know if it's the quality of player you find in automatch, but you were a moron for ever buying a Stuh in that game. They rarely if ever paid for themselves.

Quality of the player. Stuh isn't meant for all situations. It could be one of the WTF things relic does like insanely boosting BAR damage or making M10 god like or giving half-tracks heavy crush.

The easiest way to pay off the stuh in vcoh is to use it against the british.

Frontal armour is pretty good. It bounces ATG and sherman's at range. Even a stug can take on an unupgraded sherman head to head.

[Tymathee]

wow, calm down guys lol

[LordMalgoroth]

I have never. ever. seen a stuh one shot an AT gun. The AT gun always gets the first, maybe even second, shot on a Stuh if it's dumb enough to charge right into one. And like I said, only an idiot relies on ONE ATG for their anti-armor.

I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's a rare sight to behold.

Everyone remembers the one time a unit performed some miraculous feat. The time the Marder sniped the vet 3 retreating captain. The time the croc roasted 2 schreked gren squads in under 2 seconds... The time the Stuh one shotted an AT gun...  No one ever remembers the 50 times previously when they got their ass handed to them.

My english comprehension is just fine btw. It's your reasoning and debate skills that need work. You show up blathering about how unfair a unit is with no evidence or replays to back up your assertions. When you claim a unit is OP the burden of proof is on you to prove so.

You can look at numbers all day and theory-craft wild accusations, but unless you have a replay your whining is just that. Whining. Which I see an awful lot of on these forums and very rarely, if ever, do I see a replay to back it up. Just because its a game and just because this is the internet doesn't mean the rules cease to apply. You make a claim, you prove it.

The Stuh DID fire to slowly and the projectile DID move to slowly. It was very limited in application. It's still limited in use, but now, thankfully it's no longer a drain on a players pop cap.  

lol, calm down...
Don't you know the internet is serious business?

[gamesguy1]

The stuh was decent in EIR, you had to micro it right but it was great for sieging given its ability to shoot over hedges, low pop cost compared to other AI tanks like the ostwind/croc, and low cost in general.

No idea why it was buffed.  Stuh is underpowered in retail due to its massive cost, but thats not true here, stuh is damn cheap...

[31stPzGren]

I have never. ever. seen a stuh one shot an AT gun. The AT gun always gets the first, maybe even second, shot on a Stuh if it's dumb enough to charge right into one. And like I said, only an idiot relies on ONE ATG for their anti-armor.

I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's a rare sight to behold.

That's too bad for you. It does and it is a common sight.

My english comprehension is just fine btw.

You don't even know which point I'm talking about.

You show up blathering about how unfair a unit is with no evidence or replays to back up your assertions. When you claim a unit is OP the burden of proof is on you to prove so.

You can look at numbers all day and theory-craft wild accusations, but unless you have a replay your whining is just that. Whining. Which I see an awful lot of on these forums and very rarely, if ever, do I see a replay to back it up. Just because its a game and just because this is the internet doesn't mean the rules cease to apply. You make a claim, you prove it.

Balance discussion are not for the benefit of inferior players. That is a fact. Every pro player here who knows how to use a stuh knows what I'm talking about.

The Stuh DID fire to slowly and the projectile DID move to slowly. It was very limited in application. It's still limited in use, but now, thankfully it's no longer a drain on a players pop cap.  

Limited application? It was the most cost-effective tank for blitz doctrine back then.

EiRR is not vCoH. Not all changes in vCoH are beneficial to EiRR vice versa.

[LordMalgoroth]

*yawn* Still no replay?

At this point your posts are merely "blah blah blah" until you give some evidence showing how the Stuhs just rape all day and how the faster projectile is unfair.
 

And for the other post by gamesguy, Stuhs don't really fire over anything. They'll usually hit whatever is between them and their target until whatever was in their way is destroyed. Hedges included.

[31stPzGren]

*yawn* Still no replay?

At this point your posts are merely "blah blah blah" until you give some evidence showing how the Stuhs just rape all day and how the faster projectile is unfair.

As mentioned, this isn't for your benefit. If my argument is true, it will be reflected in the price change of the stuh. If it isn't true, people who know how to use a stuh can enjoy exploiting it to the max then.

And for the other post by gamesguy, Stuhs don't really fire over anything. They'll usually hit whatever is between them and their target until whatever was in their way is destroyed. Hedges included.

Go use the stuh more often. Your not microing/positioning your stuh right.

[EscforrealityTLS]

I'm pretty sure the StuH can fire over destroyed buildings, but not hedges, it just shoots at the hedge until its destroyed.

[Dragon2008]

It can fire of destroyed building but no hedges and building with can be occupied. Unlike the PIATS/riflegrenades.

[Malevolence]

StuH is fine. I have had no problems in my own experience, although your experience may vary.

[Scyntos]

The projectile speed increase has made it explicitly harder to evade fire from a StuH. In old EiR you needed to maneuver a StuH to get it's cost worth; I've seen some pretty destructive StuHs in EiR:R without the maneuvering. You used to be able to evade StuH fire and perhaps have a chance at a second life as a rifleman.. you have no chance now.

A StuH CAN and will decrew an ATG in one shot if you know what you're doing.. and even if you don't the chance is still there. You could charge an ATG in EiR and decrew the ATG and press on and rape the infantry.. the same stands in EiR:R.. except it's now more efficient at killing the infantry before reinforcements have arrived.

[salan]

the projectile shoots at the same speed, I don't understand that argument.

I think the barrel was given more of a arch itself, which means its easier to get the projectile off then it was before.

[brn4meplz]

Actually wasn't it that the fire aim time and traverse speed/degrees of traverse were changed on the Stug? which would in turn affect the StuH? because as slow as it seems to acquire a target thats the wind up.  I know the stug was changed because it was having a hell of a time targeting lateral moving units, maybe the same change applied to the StuH. either way i think it's Fine, it decrews an ATG in retail as well, It's meant for use as an assault gun. besides that i rather like the effectiveness and synergy of a StuH and an MG42, lol

[31stPzGren]

the projectile shoots at the same speed, I don't understand that argument.

I think the barrel was given more of a arch itself, which means its easier to get the projectile off then it was before.

The fire speed is not the concern. As Scyn mentioned...

The projectile speed increase has made it explicitly harder to evade fire from a StuH.

It is the speed of the projectile. And also...

In old EiR you needed to maneuver a StuH to get it's cost worth; I've seen some pretty destructive StuHs in EiR:R without the maneuvering. You used to be able to evade StuH fire and perhaps have a chance at a second life as a rifleman.. you have no chance now.

A StuH CAN and will decrew an ATG in one shot if you know what you're doing.. and even if you don't the chance is still there. You could charge an ATG in EiR and decrew the ATG and press on and rape the infantry.. the same stands in EiR:R.. except it's now more efficient at killing the infantry before reinforcements have arrived.

An example of people who know the destructive capabilities of the stuh.

In Closing to Salan

Salan I'm pretty sure that the projectile flies faster. Are you sure it is because of the change in the angel and trajectory of shot?

[Malevolence]

The projectile speed increase has made it explicitly harder to evade fire from a StuH.

the projectile shoots at the same speed