Balance Suggestions for Commandos

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[Mukip]

These are my opinions on Commando specific units, I'm going to leave non-doctrine british units out of this.  I think certain units need to be cheaper to encourage them to be used more.

Commandos - cost should change to 320 manpower 150 munitions (from 350 manpower 180 munis), grenade 55 munitions (from 65).

Reason:  From what I've seen of myself and other Commando players, they either go unused or don't do nearly enough to justify their cost.  They often lose to axis infantry with assault rifles/smgs.  As the poster boys of the doctrine they need some lovin'.  I think perhaps fear of Commandos carried over from vanilla COH has unfairly affected their cost.  Like the similarly useless Churchill, they were scary in VCOH because they came at 3 CPs before the opponent had their own elite infantry or vehicles out, but in EIRR these units are typically present throughout the battle thus reducing the Commandos shock value.

PIAT Commandos - cost should change to 180 Manpower 100 munitions (from 270/100).

Reason - They aren't as good as sappers.  Sappers have more squad members, I'm not sure if they have more health or not but tanks often one-shot infantry, and since PIAT Commandos are AT infantry their 3-man squad size is a big problem.  Sappers can also repair which gives them greater general utility.  Another reason is they have fucking PIATs.  Commandos are supposed to be the elite option, but it's sappers that should cost more in this instance.

The recent balance change of giving Commandos free smoke grenades has helped Commando HMGs and Mortars, giving them extended life and thus more value.  I think it is fair for them to cost around as much as the axis equivalents.  Maybe a slight manpower decrease on the HMG if anything.

Keep in mind with these proposed cost decreases that currently not that many people use these units very much and they are just not cost effective.  It won't be a big buff to the British, it will just widen their options for building viable companies.  A person may have a dilemma between taking Sappers for the repair function or Commando PIATs because they have smoke grenades, rather than just automatically taking Sappers right now because they're cheaper and can repair the tanks when they aren't busy. 

Similary atm there's not much reason to take Commandos, when for the same manpower cost you can get two Tommy squads with rifle nades or brens and a Leiutenant and still have munitions to spare.  When I don't want elite infantry over line infantry something is wrong.  I mean people don't need convincing to use other elite infantry, they often take as many as their availability allows and maybe even spend PP on more, whereas Commandos are lucky to see half their availability made use of because they just aren't attractive.

[MannfredvonRitter]

I agree, except if piats are made cheaper, availability should be lower to stop piat blob spam.

[avaspin]

The PIAT commando suggestion is okay, i see it's only purpose is to destroy light armour really, maybe lower it to 200mp/100mun

[Bubz]

Pretty much what you said it's right.

[Khorney]

apart from making commandos free and unlimited availability, this is the next best solution for my red devils =P

glad to see some reasoned axis opinions aswell (especially because they agree =P)

drinks all round!

[skyblazer]

Commando's themselfs play nicely out on the field and more so with a Lt near by to give them that extra punch in the face However due to their costs I only field 1 squad and thats with 2 Ranger squads armed with zooks flanking them. Before I got the Inf Reinforcement unlock I wouldn't touch normal Commandos and purely use their support weapons. However when working with a Lt and Rangers they preform extremely well but still for their cost I'm not about to go past just that 1 squad. I would generally vote for the mu decrease on them since 180 is a huge amount the mp isn't a big worry and I think they're worth their mp costs anyways. So I would say about 140-160 mu cost from 180 would be about the right amount decrease.

[Khorney]

i need to try running them with a captain at some point, since their main problem (in addition to their cost) is their survivability compared to other hardcore units.

[Mukip]

Well yeah, if you are scared to use more than one squad of them something is wrong.

[Killer344]

yes, you need to learn to use them.

[Khorney]

i don't believe l2p is the entire problem here. i usually run 2 squads that drop behind with a tetrarch if i have the cap, and are good for disrupting squads taking out mortars, but don't nearly do enough damage before being scared off by mp40/44 squads, and tend to die very quickly unless retreated immediately. so not much more than airborne, really, except less useful against tanks, which is a shame, considering their pwnage in vanilla.For their current costs, i have a hard time justifying them in my list over more tommies with brens, which mince squads up equally well, abliet not from behind.

[Mukip]

Care to share your wisdom on Commando usage then Killer?  I presume you have used them a lot yourself in EIRR and have a repertoire of tactics that make them great and well worth their cost.  Either that or stay out of balance discussions if all you're going to contribute is useless one-liners. 

[panzerjager1943]

Commandos used to be extremely cheap in earlier versions. We increased their price because they smash KCH, but had costed much less originally. Now they cost more, still stomp every Axis unit 1vs1, and you want them to cost less?
MP44s may tear into Commandos, but that's why you don't charge MP44s with them. Just like you don't charge Assault Grenadiers into Ranger Thompsons. When you face LMG Grens or Assault Infantry, let them come to you. Or, if they decide to stay at range, throw a Nade. Perhaps a minor munitions cost change is in order so that the Grenade is more available, but not a significant reduction.

[Khorney]

really? i find my commandos get steamrolled by KCH no contest

[salan]

really? i find my commandos get steamrolled by KCH no contest

They do if you charge em, for panzerjagers comment he does reiterate how to fight the kch and win.

also the price wasn't raised based on them smashing KCH, it was raised in relation to their effectiveness as a unit against the factions they were fighting as a whole.

[Khorney]

fair enough. the MP i've never really had issue with, it's more the exuberant munitions. They are a relatively (i emphasise relative) weak platform for an elite assaulting unit, and would normally suggest the 180 Mu would be better spent on 2x sets of brens, which are normally more effective, as they have some AT uses. still, i am experimenting with the best way to use them, but unfortunately the most kills they have racked up so far is when they were just mixed in with a tommy blob, which really wasn't necessary as it had enough firepower on its own =/
I currently run 1 squad and an HMG (mainly for lack of funds) to support AB drops or tetrarchs, although haven't played enough games like this is discern their effectiveness.

[Smokaz]

Commandos can take on a mg head on though. Its like a fireup with no nade neccessary and no damage taken.

[Khorney]

thats only really an effective vanilla tactic, however, as the recharge on smoke is much faster. if they have any armour or volks with assault weaponry nearby (if they don't you are lucky) you are either dead or have to retreat. i try and save my smoke for such opponents, rather than wasting it on charging an MG

[UnderpoweredAll]

Commando's tend to kill everything 1v1/2v1 even.

Two grenadier squads with LMGs versus my commando squad, commando won.

Commando's just need to catch them in the open and out of cover and are more an offensive defence unit, rather than a purely agressive unit. Smoke is the 'oh shit' button when you mess up and need to get away.