Hetzer to expensive

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[BigDick]

I would really like to play my tankhunter account more...but i don't see that some units are worth its costs

you have to decide between 2 hetzer or a jagdpanther (to have fuel left for ATguns and halftracks) and i would always take the jagdpanther over 2 hetzer

the hetzer costs as much as a wehr panzer4 (even 5 more fuel), has no turret and 50% less HP and a long aim time and small arc of fire

i would say it is to expensive for what it does

you could compare it with a stug with some better anti inf capabilities, but a stug is 25% less menpower and more than 60% less fuel

the hetzer is to expensive in fuel...maybe make it 180fuel and not 265

[LeoPhone]

what should be good about tank hunters, is that you can get a lot of medium tanks for not so much recourses, also the hetzer is really small, so in reality cheaper(dont think we care but whatever )

i very much argree with making the hetzer cheaper, also in manpower

[Scyntos]

Jagdpanther - 895 MP, 685 F, 18 pop (According to the price list)

I just watched a replay where someone had a hetzer, a jagdpanther, and a marder.. along with several halftracks. So I don't really get your complaint.

[BigDick]

Jagdpanther - 895 MP, 685 F, 18 pop (According to the price list)

yeah and 2 hetzer = 800MP 530 fuel that is not much less than one jagdpanther
and a jagdpanther is way better then 2 hetzer

I just watched a replay where someone had a hetzer, a jagdpanther, and a marder.. along with several halftracks. So I don't really get your complaint.

my complain is that you pay much more for a doctrinal unit then wehr gets with its stug or even a panzerIV

the hetzer has many disadvantages and i would always choose a wehr panzerIV over a hetzer....and why the hetzer even costs more?

i can't understand that

and the PE panzerIV is to expensive too it is like a whe panzerIV but much miore crappy

it has no anti tank capabilities and they nerfed its range much...
you can kill infantry much better with a wehr panzerIV then with the PE panzerIV (because of the range)
and on top of this it has some anti tank capabilities

the hetzer in vCOH is sometimes great because it has no fuel costs and it can get apcr rounds

[Fingertrapped]

You can beat a hetzer with a upgunned sherman without too much hassle in the hypothetical 1v1, but 140 munitions should matter here. Losing the price down to sherman level (250 fuel) and 395 manpower would pretty fair considering since the sherman upgun beats the hetzer and they perform the same versus other targets. If 76mm was reduced in price however like it is being suggested in another thread, the hetzer needs to be slightly cheaper than the sherman. If you read up on it, hetzers were actually spammed to some degree by the germans.

The viability of the jagdpanther is a whole other sack of worms. Basically you sink half your fuel into a tank which can only fight other tanks. Its NOT good at taking on at guns, infantry or support weapons. If british units are present (Button + Firefly) it has to be played so defensively.

The super tanks had a short period where they dominated and people sang their praises. I've completely removed supertanks from all my companies just recently. The stuff I get for their fuel enables me to win the game before there is any need or possiblity to deploy a jagdpanther.

Also, maybe the normal tiger needs a look at? Nobody uses this. The KT sees little action as well although being the 2nd best tank after the ACE in my eyes.

If we are keeping the ACE in the game, why not move it to blitz to replace the normal tiger. It doesnt fit Terror to have the two best supertanks in the game while blitz is stuck with a now relatively "crappy" tiger and PE with the extremely underneeded jagdpanther.

Alternatively, the normal tiger could be made a part of the reinforcement package for blitz, replacing the KCH. That would be awesome.

[Scyntos]

If i'm not mistaken.. doesn't the Hetzer have significantly better front armor than  Sherman, Wher PIV, and Stug? In my opinion.. the Hetzer has much better survivability than any of those tanks, not to mention the ambush.

[BigDick]

If i'm not mistaken.. doesn't the Hetzer have significantly better front armor than  Sherman, Wher PIV, and Stug? In my opinion.. the Hetzer has much better survivability than any of those tanks,

that don't help because it has way less HP and you always forget that it has no turret and a 11.6 rear penetration modifier to everything

not to mention the ambush.

the "ambush" is kind of crap (only to hide it from enemy sight when you don't need it)
as it cant rotate while in ambush mode and it has a very small arc of fire and no turret....

[TheDeadlyShoe]

One can forgive a lot of rear penetration for front armor that provides better protection against 57mm than a Tiger.

[Sach]

doesn't high penetration defense and low health make it better than low penetration defense and high health in terms of longevity? easier to get it healed up, just have to watch out for high burst damage.

[BigDick]

One can forgive a lot of rear penetration for front armor that provides better protection against 57mm than a Tiger.

when it had a turret i would agree but try to use the hetzer and you will see that it is almost not possible to protect it against anything when you get rushed
and on top of this you will not get shots of because of its firering cone and the fact that it has no turret...

it is way easier to survive with a panzerIV

[Bubz]

I would say, remove that stupid thing or gimme superman/batman (batmobile included)

[CafeMilani]

doesn't high penetration defense and low health make it better than low penetration defense and high health in terms of longevity? easier to get it healed up, just have to watch out for high burst damage.

only front armor has a good penetratione defense, rear and sides not (no defense :S)

for 265 u can get 3 tetrarchs which are muuch better than a hetzer or even a panther

200 fuel should be ok

[brn4meplz]

only front armor has a good penetratione defense, rear and sides not (no defense :S)

I need to clarify this. There is no such thing in CoH as side armour. Tanks have rear armour and front armour. Rear armour shots add a modifier to penetration and typically have different crit tables on tanks(light vehicles have no rear armour and medium vehicles have the same crit tables front and back)

'Side' in CoH is just another statistical chance of hitting the rear armour mark on a tank, Your chances are better the more to the side you are but you can still get a rear armour hit from off centre at the front of a tank.

[Killer344]

yeah.... a tank that has awesome frontal armor... moderate speed... that can cloak (lol), and a pretty awesome range upgraded and a moderately AI capability sucks.... right.

If we are keeping the ACE in the game, why not move it to blitz to replace the normal tiger. It doesnt fit Terror to have the two best supertanks in the game while blitz is stuck with a now relatively "crappy" tiger and PE with the extremely underneeded jagdpanther.

A TA is a weapon of Terror lol.

doesn't high penetration defense and low health make it better than low penetration defense and high health in terms of longevity? easier to get it healed up, just have to watch out for high burst damage.

only front armor has a good penetratione defense, rear and sides not (no defense :S)

for 265 u can get 3 tetrarchs which are muuch better than a hetzer or even a panther

200 fuel should be ok

you should look at the mp price of the tetrarchs and their upgrades.

[AmPM]

The Hetzer is made of fail.

At 10 pop vs STuG at 8, no option of skirts, and a much higher base price.

What you gain, little better armor, less overall protection, slightly better MG mount. Debatably useless cloaking and ambush bonus.

[Bubz]

The Hetzer is not a Stug, they are different and have to be used differently. Also stug pop is just lol.

[Tymathee]

Hetzers seem to be really good vs support weapons with the scoped upgrade. And also taking out uncrewed at guns and howitzers. I had one guy play against me, didn't do so well against tnaks but light vehicles, support weapons and things in houses got raped by it. You can't use it like a stug.

[AmPM]

LOL, did you just say its selling points were vs unmanned weapons and infantry? Guess what does this better, a STuG or P4, and for the same or less.

You do know a squad of infantry can also kill an unmanned ATG or Howi right?

Its a tank destroyer that fails vs anything other than light vehicles, which an Ostwind or Schrek squad can do better anyway.

And Tym, those are the exact same things a STuG excels at, while being cheaper, and killing tanks.

[Bubz]

AmPm you have to use it with range and the upgrade, differently from the usual metal fortress axis tanks use to be.

[Killer344]

Don´t argue with AmPm about the stugs, is pointless.