Basic Inf Vet Requirements Wehrmacht

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[Peiper71]

This is just an observation based on 40+ games as Wehrmacht so far. I'm starting to see quite a number of vet Allied troops, but try as I might, I have yet to achieve vet 2 with any Grenadier or Volks squad. Neither have I with KCH or Storms but a few have come close so I'm not focussing this topic on those troops so much. The last 15 games or so I have really foccused on their survival and veterency.

I know that with the doctrinal additions (zeal etc) this may improve substantially for Grenadiers and Volks but I'd be interested to know if anyone else has been finding this a hard task. I have had vet 2 Tiger Aces (of course) vet 3 support units, vet 2 of most of anything combat related really, except basic infantry. I know that having a small squad (in the case of Grens) or their weakness (volks) doesn't lend itself to survivability but has anyone managed to keep a good number of vet Wehr inf?

Opinions?

[Baine]

They usually get killed with Vet 1 unless you pull them off after 50% casualties and that's 2 men mostly. (Concerning KCH it's their health you should watch, after 1 man is dead, be darn careful)

That means less combat efficiency if you like to gain Vet. Or let them have a last stand and kill more of the masses they send against you.

I don't want to whine about anything here, but as it is, the Allies/brits are in an advantage concerning the overall veterancy of their Infantry. I do believe that allied players have troubles vetting up riflemen like axis have with volks, but Rangers on the other hand are easier to vet up, due to their number per squad and combat effectiveness even after 50% losses.

Tommies are half/half here. What really helps is the Experience gained through Lieutenants/Captains who will get Vet even before the Tommies will. Need some Brits to confirm/negotiate this.

[Mysthalin_Axis]

brit tommies = hard to vet up.
sappers with PIATS = almost instant vet 2 or absolutely no vet at all, depends on random blob destruction factor.
officers = vet 2 almost instantly, like to die a lot tho.

[Khorney]

as US, only my support weapons tned to retain any vet for more than a couple of matches. riflemen go down after vet 1 pretty quickly.

brits, regular squads take ages, but officers get vetted up pretty quick. this is countered by the fact they tend to die randomly. a lot. **grumble random mortars and tank crush grumble**

[scrapking]

Support weapons are a horrible vet investment for all factions.  They might get to vet 1 fairly easy, but their chances of surviving through games with more than the random arty piece are slim.

Snipers can be an exception to this, and can be a good vet investment for both sides.

General Infantry (Rifles, Tommies, Volks, Grens, PGs) are a horrible investment unless you retreat them at, or before being half dead.  If you like keeping them on the field longer with missing men, you will ultimately lose those too.  If there is an advantage here, it slightly favors the Allied larger squads - but not by much.

Elite Infantry are another story, and generally are a great vet investment - assuming that you like their vet 2 & 3 bonuses.  You still have to watch their health carefully and retreat them if anything is on the field nearby which counters them strongly, but you have much more leeway and room for error.  Fireup gives Allied a slight advantage here, as well as again, slightly larger squad sizes.

Tanks on the other hand, favor Axis almost entirely.  Virtually every Axis tank is more survivable than its Allied counterparts.  This is not only due to overall better tanks, but also the option for skirts, and that Axis have generally better AT options between shreks and PAKs.  Great investment for Axis, questionable one for Allies.

[Mukip]

My Tommies never get vet because I keep them on the field to the bitter end squeezing more use out of them.  Officers vet up quickly and die almost as fast, I've had several vet 3 Lts (all dead).  I Just had a Lt go from vet 0 to vet 3 in 2 matches.  Officers are essentially a PP black hole though, in that you replace them often and the important benefits come at vet 0 or vet 1.  No I don't care if you kill my vet 3 Lt.

[Tymathee]

i had 3 vet 2 at guns and 2 of them died in one game...including both my vet 2 rifles :cries:

[CommanderHolt]

Yeah, IMHO the only units that survive and keep their vet for a good amount of time (and still be useful) are Indirect Fire units, axis tanks, ATGs, and Snipers. Everything else just seems to die easily and therefore be almost a waste of PP points to vet up.

[EscforrealityTLS]

The Axis mortar is really really easy to vet up, I mean really easy, I find everything else more difficult to vet because of my fight to the end, retreat at the last moment, play style which means a really bad time for my poor tank crews.

For the Father Land!

[MistenTH]

Vettable survivable units have the following factors:

-Toughness: How hard it is for them to die (either high hp or long range)
-Damage: Able to kill a lot and hence vet up reasonably quick

This throws most basic infantry out of the window. I see reasonable amounts of rangers and kch because they have both these factors. AB, Commandoes and Fallschirms lack in either killing ability or durability.

Yea, tanks primarily axis tanks, not only because they are typically tougher, but because allied AT is less of a threat to them, with the exception of the firefly. So fair amounts of pz4s, but mainly tigers, particularly aces. PE not so much so, since their vehicles are weak. Maybe the jadg but i've rarely seen it.

Artillery and axis mortars, long range hitting hence usually safe. Plus with the crew retreat mechanic they survive a lot more often.

[NAQOYQATSI]

to reply to the basic question asked:

yes, I'm also having problems vetting units/keeping vetted units alive.
More than in the previous war at least, is my observation.
It's partly due to having to spend substantial amounts of PP to vet units (which isn't really my cup of tea...)

I had a vet3 stuh in the beginning but I lost it to a cromwell with flank speed 
That's about all I've had this war

[AmPM]

Perhaps if vet just enhanced survivability it would be a better buy, and I mean in a meaningful way.

PE and American infantry for instance

Vet 1: Incoming Accuracy .8
Vet 2: Health 1.2, Incoming Accuracy .9, special
Vet 3: Damage Received .8, Health 1.1, special

With the special slot just being something to add flavors for the unit (Ambush shots, Penetration for AT units, movement accuracy, Bazooka Penetration, Free item use, etc).

Then you get a good return on your investment, they are tough, harder to hit, and don't insta-gib other units.

[Malevolence]

I'm all for that. Veteran units weren't usually much better at shooting other people, but they began to develop a kind of survival sense that kept them alive through experience...

[EliteGrens]

I support AmPms idea 100% here.

[Piotrskivich]

I have only gotten panzer grenadiers to Vet 1. But then again I never know when to stop, I fight with 1 man squads and try repairing Panthers that have killed 3 tanks and 15 men which should be leaving. My Mortar HT gets ranger rushed when I am not looking and killed quite instantly, My Fals drop onto Churchille crocs and decide not to use Fausts ect. Maybe someday I will click that "retreat" button.

[Peiper71]

 Well, after reading the responses, I guess I'm kinda relieved its not just me. I like AmPm's idea, though I can't help but reflect that this may have been a good reason to keep survival xp from EiR. I know no one really wanted the loss of xp, but the 3 or 4 xp you got from battles did at least help basic infantry (and non-combat) plod along toward veterency if they survived. It made no difference to large veterency units.

I think this, or something like it (a reduction in vet req) may be neccessary because basic infantry are usually the first in the firing line, the probing forces and the cannon fodder. Just retreating them is hard enough at times, but there are always things that can insta-gib the whole squad vet or not: Mines, Howie blast, mortar, etc. I also believe that if more veteran infantry was being turned over then it would provide more of an outlet for PP pools which seem destined to outpace their spend at present.

[acker]

A note to light vehicles:

The only vetted light vehicle I've seen as of yet is the Mortar Halftrack.

I haven't seen any vetted Armored Cars, Scout Cars, Infantry Halftracks...I don't think I've seen a vetted M8 or Puma yet, even.

They just die too quickly, to too many things. Which is the main problem for most nonvettable units out there. Which, in turn, is a big problem for the PE.

[Malevolence]

Yes, vetting light vehicles is really difficult.

[gamesguy1]

I support AmPms idea 100% here.

Also this.

[RikiRude]

love ampms idea, giving units special abilities through vet would be awesome, like say hold fire on your 57s or smoke grenade for sniper? any abilities the units get would make units pretty dynamic.