Stuart vs Puma

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[SyKoFanTlvl2]

Dont whine on cromwell anti infantry capabilities, they are AWESOME, not inlcuding flank speed it can still grind schreck-squads as easy as a sherman, and snipes AT guns ALOT better than shermans even, so plz myst :/ really dont care if the stuart isnt balanced, just dont say such silly things

[Mysthalin_Axis]

I've never seen a sherman not manage to hit a shreker at point blank range while stationary 5 times in a row.
I have seen a cromwell do that. And no, a cromwell CAN'T grind a shrek squad for the reason I've just given you - instastop once it crushes an infantry guy.
And as I've said in my post - axis players, try not to respond "stop whining" before you use the cromwell. Just try it once, and you'll know what I mean. Sure, it can kill a pak better than a sherman because of flank speed, but what's the point if you die to supporting shreks almost instantly, and he recrews the pak?

[perfil02]

stuart can damage p4, puma cant damage shermans. Also puma can be killed by an HMG.

[SyKoFanTlvl2]

I've never seen a sherman not manage to hit a shreker at point blank range while stationary 5 times in a row.
I have seen a cromwell do that. And no, a cromwell CAN'T grind a shrek squad for the reason I've just given you - instastop once it crushes an infantry guy.
And as I've said in my post - axis players, try not to respond "stop whining" before you use the cromwell. Just try it once, and you'll know what I mean. Sure, it can kill a pak better than a sherman because of flank speed, but what's the point if you die to supporting shreks almost instantly, and he recrews the pak?

Cromwells can just as easily as shermans grind schreck squads using merely their speed, NOT flank-speed, just their speed, ive seen it done a million times, and even tho i admit im biased as FUCK, never having played an allied game and all that, it is a FACT that cromwells kills THE at-gun itself, much much much more often than shermans does, thereby making recrewing forfeit. Not mentioning the instant "get out of jail freecard" that is flank-speed. The brits allrdy have tons of Anti-Inf, what they really need is to make the cromwell better against tanks if anything.. more M10 like

[Mysthalin_Axis]

stuart can damage p4, puma cant damage shermans. Also puma can be killed by an HMG.

Puma can't be killed by 2 RR shots, stuart can be killed by 2 shrek shots.

Cromwells can just as easily as shermans grind schreck squads using merely their speed, NOT flank-speed, just their speed, ive seen it done a million times, and even tho i admit im biased as FUCK, never having played an allied game and all that, it is a FACT that cromwells kills THE at-gun itself, much much much more often than shermans does, thereby making recrewing forfeit. Not mentioning the instant "get out of jail freecard" that is flank-speed. The brits allrdy have tons of Anti-Inf, what they really need is to make the cromwell better against tanks if anything.. more M10 like

yet again - CROMWELLS COME TO A STOP WHEN THEY CRUSH INFANTRY!!!
They do NOT grind shrek squads unless the shrek squad runs into the cromwell in the AI's full glorious inteligence from around a hedge and into the threads.

Flank speed is not a "get out of jail free card" for a few reasons :
1) It isn't free, it costs 30 munitions to upgrade the cromwell with.
2) It gives no moving accuracy buffs or anything - shreks and paks and everything still hit them at max range constantly.
3) It's meant to help FLANK enemy tanks and ATGs, hence "FLANK speed", not "GTFO Speed"


Both the OQF 75 mm Cromwell gun and the 75 mm Sherman gun have 87.5 damage, equal accuracy against pak guns, and equal targetting priority vs them, so that argument is invalid.

[perfil02]

stuart can damage p4, puma cant damage shermans. Also puma can be killed by an HMG.

Puma can't be killed by 2 RR shots, stuart can be killed by 2 shrek shots.

No.

It's 3 shreks shots to kill a stuart, and 4 recoiless shots to kill a puma.
But RR are more accurate can fire up etc...

Also puma has to pay 80-90 muni (I dont remember), to have almost the same weapon as the stuart

[Mysthalin_Axis]

1. It only takes 2 shrek shots to kill a stuart. PE shreks might take 3 if the stuart is lucky, but wehr shreks always 2 shot the stuart(or completely disable it).
2. Shreks hit stuarts a LOT more often than RRs hit Pumas(RRs hit pumas around 33 percent of the time, shreks hit stuarts around 80 percent of the time at long range).
3. A puma has 310 hp. RR has 62.5 dmg/shot. It takes, at the very least 5 shots to kill a puma with an RR.

[Sixpack]

Someone should just stop calling it Puma without Upgun because the only Puma was the one with the 5cm KwK, the Armored Scout car with the 20mm was no Puma, it´s just CoH.

[Leafedge]

This thread seems to have nothing to do with the poll it concerns. The unupgunned puma loses to the stuart, as it should, however this seems to be more about their abilities vs other units...

[Mysthalin_Axis]

Forgot to remind you the 5 cm KwK gun on the Puma is superior to the 37 mm gun of the Stuart(for good reason), not "almost the same gun". However, the OP was saying, ONCE AGAIN, that a 20 mm Puma should not win vs a Stuart. However, that happens.

[perfil02]

1. It only takes 2 shrek shots to kill a stuart. PE shreks might take 3 if the stuart is lucky, but wehr shreks always 2 shot the stuart(or completely disable it).
2. Shreks hit stuarts a LOT more often than RRs hit Pumas(RRs hit pumas around 33 percent of the time, shreks hit stuarts around 80 percent of the time at long range).
3. A puma has 310 hp. RR has 62.5 dmg/shot. It takes, at the very least 5 shots to kill a puma with an RR.

1. Shreks's damage is 120, stuart life is 300. some basic maths 120x2=240             240<300
2. -Homer Simpson- "Everybody who talks of percentages , doesnt not know what's talking about, and that's know by the 10% of the population."
Where did u got that %? RRs hit to pumas 33% of the time and shreks 80%? lol, that's not true , the only real fact is that RRs have less scatter angle wich make them much more accurate.
3. 62.5dmg/shot x 1.25 bonus = 78.125 dmg/shot.               310hp/78.125dmg= 3.9 shot = 4shots

[Mgallun74]

the 50mm was not all that great.. up to 500m both the guns had the same penetration numbers..

i like this game, its fun, but its really not trying to follow much reality at all, some of the health settings they have for units, some of the penetration and damange numbers of some guns are wacky, handheld at weapons can shoot as far as some tanks etc..     so i have given up on trying to equate any realism into how relic has setup certian units numbers.. waste of time.

[NightRain]

the 50mm was not all that great.. up to 500m both the guns had the same penetration numbers..

i like this game, its fun, but its really not trying to follow much reality at all, some of the health settings they have for units, some of the penetration and damange numbers of some guns are wacky, handheld at weapons can shoot as far as some tanks etc..     so i have given up on trying to equate any realism into how relic has setup certian units numbers.. waste of time.

Play men of war, Faces of war and the other one Soldiers of WW2 it was something like that, try Combat mission 2-3, or then play Battle of the Bulge Modification for Company of heroes.
There you get the feeling of Realism and how cool it is to lose your P4 to one shot for a KV1 Heavy Tank. Feel the pain in your butt when you can't penetrate King Tiger's or Tiger's Frontal armor with anything you have except 17 pounder if its still alive or with a massive rush for its rear and side armor where usually is protection :p

50mm should beat Stuart. 20mm  I think it shouldn't...its a Anti tank gun...can Wirbelwind beat Stuart? If it can then it is justified since it has 4x 20mm in barrels where Light Armored Car doesn't.

[Smokaz]

The current stuart is weak as shit, and I'd like to see the basic unit buffed or given some kickass veterancy like double canister shot uses or something at vet 2. But dont buff canister shot itself, its a murderer if you use it right.

[Mysthalin_Axis]

1.Stuart Life may be 300, but it dies to 2 shrek shots, all the time. Field test it if you don't believe me. Maybe there's a hidden multiplier, but they do. Tetrarchs don't seem to have this problem.
2. Everyone who can't utilize basic english while pretending to be smart usually aren't that smart. Ask anyone who's played for more than 20 games as airborne if RRs hit pumas more than 33 percent of the time. I've played way over 100 games as airborne in EiR, when airborne blobs were a plenty, and so were pumas. RRs just wouldn't hit them. Yet again - I invite you to field test how the shrek fares against the stuart. Make some videos to prove me wrong, if you wish.
3. Excuse me on that, was not aware RRs have a damage modifier vs pumas. Not that it matters - they still can't hit them.

[Tymathee]

Well point blank a puma should not win vs a tank for god sakes...its a 20 mm shell. The m8 and Stuart have basically the same gun (37 mm) yet somehow the m8 rapes pumas but the stuart gets beat (i've lost quite a few stuarts to pumas) the issue is puma's have a higher rof and are faster than stuarts so they can circle them, and at the same time, if u try and chase a puma with a stuart you will more than likely lost cuz the stuart's accuracy is already bad and then its moving modifier vs puma's really makes it sucky.

Puma vs Stuart 100% accuracy whether moving or stationary.
Stuart vs Puma 90% accuracy stationary 80% moving.

Penetration for Puma is 233% in the stuarts ass
stuart gets 1170% for a back shot and 163% on front shot, so a stuart should win but the rof and bad accuracy is just too much for the stuart.

Basically...if you are going stuart vs puma, back up into a wall and sit there, let it have at your frontal armor, it only has a 0.85% chance of penetrating the stuarts frontal armor.

Or do like panthers, tigers, king tigers etc have been doing vs the m10 and shermans this whole time, keep ur frontal armor facing the puma at all times by moving ur tank with the circling puma, not that hard.

[perfil02]

1.Stuart Life may be 300, but it dies to 2 shrek shots, all the time. Field test it if you don't believe me. Maybe there's a hidden multiplier, but they do. Tetrarchs don't seem to have this problem.
2. Everyone who can't utilize basic english while pretending to be smart usually aren't that smart. Ask anyone who's played for more than 20 games as airborne if RRs hit pumas more than 33 percent of the time. I've played way over 100 games as airborne in EiR, when airborne blobs were a plenty, and so were pumas. RRs just wouldn't hit them. Yet again - I invite you to field test how the shrek fares against the stuart. Make some videos to prove me wrong, if you wish.
3. Excuse me on that, was not aware RRs have a damage modifier vs pumas. Not that it matters - they still can't hit them.

So in conclusion, I'm wrong (and stupid) because english isn't my primary language, and RRs dont kill pumas because u have played many games... sure. Nothing more to say here  

[Mysthalin_Axis]

its a 20 mm shell

brad - he wasn't talking about upgun.
Read the OP at least once before lashing out.

So in conclusion, I'm wrong (and stupid) because english isn't my primary language, and RRs dont kill pumas because u have played many games... sure. Nothing more to say here.

Yes you are wrong because you're just claiming something without having any kind of experience on the matter. And I asked you to excuse me for my miscalculation on the RR damage on the puma, as I wasn't aware on the damage multiplier. The accuracy, however, is no larger than 33 percent due to puma having phase armor. I've told you to ask anyone with a background with airborne what they would say, and I put forward my experience as I am one of the players that have indeed used airborne, and against pumas. Pumas are VERY hard to hit with RRs.
I did not claim that you are stupid, I claimed that you do not seem to be as smart as you're trying to if your wording and grammar are of the level of a 5 year old child. English isn't my first language either, but if you're putting forward a philosophical phrase - at least be arsed enough to put it down in proper(understandable) english.

[Mgallun74]

3 pages about a Stuart and Sd .234.. lol.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Mysthalin is correct about RRs. Regular pumas were considered a counter to airborne spam back in the day in EiR, because RRs almost never hit moving pumas at long range.  The shots pass through.  Additionally, the Puma was an AA weapon so it could react quickly to shoot down dropping airborne.

.Stuart Life may be 300, but it dies to 2 shrek shots, all the time.

Wehrmacht Shreks have a base damage of 120 and a short range AOE multiplier of 1.25. So they do 150 damage on a direct hit.  Thus they can get into the 5% range in 2 shots.

RRs also have this multiplier, but they still take 4 shots to 5% a puma.