My Idea For Assualt Grenadiers

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[CafeMilani]

like elite infantry armour at vet2 like tommies

[panzerjager1943]

We don't do such stat-changes.
While it isn't really fair that Brits have more health per-man than their US comrades, and on top of that have Soldier armour, while PE have much LESS health per man than their Wehr comrades, with soldier armour, we arn't likely to change it.
The balance problem mostly comes from Flamethrowers, Grenades, Calliope, and eventually Strafe absolutely devastating Panzer Elite Infantry, while similar weapons only treat the British as if they were a Squad of Riflemen (not half a Squad of Riflemen, like they treat PE.)

While I do feel changes should be made in this regard, it's unlikely to be done, as we don't do such drastic statchanges.

[BigDick]

did thoses falls have FG42? that last few times i have seen them with my tommy gun rangers they have done very well..

sure they had....no one would be so stupid to use this wortheless unit without fg42

[jackmccrack]

sure they had....no one would be so stupid to use this wortheless unit without fg42

lmao

Falls ambushing without FG42s are the strongest rifle based platform in the game.

[BigDick]

sure they had....no one would be so stupid to use this wortheless unit without fg42

lmao

Falls ambushing without FG42s are the strongest rifle based platform in the game.

but it makes no sense to give them no FG42

they are better then assault grens at almost the same price
i've never seen fallschirmjäger without fg42 in EiR:R because it makes no sense to waste munition for assault grens and save it while not giving fallschirmjäger fg42

[Smokaz]

If I was running a luftwaffe company, I would replace almost all pg squads with unupgraded fallschirms. After a while the veterancy would make them nigh unbeatable by other infantry for COST. With +5 range you could even have a spotter for them, allowing two unupgraded schirm squad to probably cut down a rifle squad (from cover ambush) before they could even kill a single fallschirm guy.

At short range, the mp44 outperforms the FG42 by a very small amount. At long range the accuracy of the fg42 and the mp44 is so low that it doesnt matter if you have the +5 range for them. (for vet 3)

The fg42 upgrade is currently not worth the money if you ask me. Cleverly used fallschirms however are way better than unupgraded pgs.

[Tymathee]

We don't do such stat-changes.
While it isn't really fair that Brits have more health per-man than their US comrades, and on top of that have Soldier armour, while PE have much LESS health per man than their Wehr comrades, with soldier armour, we arn't likely to change it.
The balance problem mostly comes from Flamethrowers, Grenades, Calliope, and eventually Strafe absolutely devastating Panzer Elite Infantry, while similar weapons only treat the British as if they were a Squad of Riflemen (not half a Squad of Riflemen, like they treat PE.)

While I do feel changes should be made in this regard, it's unlikely to be done, as we don't do such drastic statchanges.

im as stumped as you guys are on what you could do to "help" this. Although, the PE players I've played against do just fine with what they've got. The PE play differently and you just have to treat them like paper. HT's are the mainline unit for PE and people sh ould use them as such. Maybe change the availability on some HT's that directly support PE infantry like the inf ht?

[Lt_Apollo]

the point is that PE players should not haft to rely on falls as there main anti infentry, and currently onlt the assualt grenadier can fill a semi similar role but is severly weekend due to the necity for it to get close to kill anything. while half trackis help they can not be relyed on and thus i am pushing sprint as an alternative to incress the effectivness of the PEs sole not doctrine Ant Inf Solder

[AmPM]

Assault Gren + HT = Infantry killer

8 pop, will kill 2 Rifle squads without a problem.

[Lt_Apollo]

inf half tracks are not always reliable, and while effective an enemy AT gun rengers it usless. once again can you guys avoid therycrafting and actualy idk talk about unit balance and possible effects this would have on the game.

[EscforrealityTLS]

The point AmPM is trying to make is that PE do not play like everyone else, they NEED the half tracks to be effective, just like the Brits NEED there officers. Sprint atm in a really nice vet bonus but making it purchasable and with negative effects like exhaustion after use might be a solution to the problem, if there actually is one.

I've not played PE yet, so I don't know, but from observation in just seems that a different play style will be required. I can tell you first hand that AmPM for example play the PE very well, as well as numerous other players that I've been teamed up with. All of them are employing tactics that are unique to the faction. It adds a nice flavour to the game.

[AmPM]

My ENTIRE PE force is Halftracks or Marders, other than 2 squads of Airdropped FJ without upgrades (they take over weapons for me and are an effective infantry force).

Halftracks are the bread and butter of the PE, if you are unable to see that in EIR:R PE are Mechanized Infantry then there is no hope for you playing them.

If you think to play PE as an Infantry force, then go play Wehrmacht, the PE do NOT work that way. You must take advantage of the IHT as a weapon, or as I call it, a battle taxi. It takes your men to where they are needed, keeps them alive pretty well, and adds a little extra firepower to a fight.

Maybe you just are suited for the type of warfare PE excel at in EIR:R.

[Lt_Apollo]

AmPm you are missing the point. we are hear to talk about a single unit, not a fraction and how it needs to be played. i beleave my propesed upgrade will not change how PE is played, i am just proposing on methods of incressing unit functionality to help improve PE anti infentry counters. this will not affect the use of HT however as they a vital part of any assualt force, my only problem is that HT shouldent be a must for a unit to be effective.

[AmPM]

You seem to not be understanding...just as the Wehr use an HMG + Volks/KCH/Grens to counter infantry groups so must you use your IHTs.

My anti-infantry units consist of Dual LMG Grens in IHTs, FJ w/ FG42 in IHTs and a couple Armored Cars.

The IHT adds HP to your unit, gives you more speed, and comes with an MG. Its 3 pop. Just as the HMG and such are required for Wehr anti-blob/anti-infantry tactics so to is the IHT.

Get over it, your men are not the toughest, but they do good damage. Now figure out a way to increase their damage taking abilities while allowing them to outrun a tank while counting as stationary and adding a free MG to it all.

[Schultz]

Halftrack blows against the wall of combined arms that are the american support weapons.
Assault grens in particularly are the suxxor.
I replaced them all with falls, theres just no way that they can be cost efficient.
I thought once they vet they wil be worthwile, but they sucked the same. :p
They died from everything. I have them so low in esteem that i will never trust them.

But as bigdick said, its they way of the pe infantry to suck. Low health, low this and low that.
I dont know what much you can about it.

[AmPM]

Halftrack works, assaulting and running straight into their guns are two seperate things. I usually use a Vampire + MHT to soften the ATGs up, then just overwhelm them with 2-4 HT mounted squads of pure death. Sure you take losses, they take many many more.

Typically I get anywhere from a 6:1 k/d to a 3:1 on the low end.

The problem with Assault Grens, is that they are not worth 145mu for 4 of them. Their low health means they cannot be expected to compete with Rangers or Stormies, let alone KCH.

They are basically more expensive Volks with a more accurate weapon.

[Schultz]

Well if you typically find yourself against 2 atgs, mgs and youre going to be in a really bad position, and halftracks die so fast.
I guess halftrack rush can work when fighting one isolated guy, but not when you combine forces.

But yeah pretty much youre rught.

The problem with Assault Grens, is that they are not worth 145mu for 4 of them. Their low health means they cannot be expected to compete with Rangers or Stormies, let alone KCH.

They are basically more expensive Volks with a more accurate weapon.

Although i dont know if decreasing cost will do them good, they will still suck

[Lt_Apollo]

the point is that i beleave that giving assualt grens the Option to purches sprint will make them well not suck. AmPM i dont see how saying HT beat all is contributing to this thread, i know you dont think this is needed but there is no reasion to post stratagys and alternatives on how to use a unit.

[AmPM]

Yes there is, because they are nearly the same as FJ short of the Ambush ability.

Every unit in this game needs the correct  tactical deployment to succeed.

The PE hit hard, and are fragile.

2 HMGs, 2 ATG combo is nothing. Use a MHT and done.

The only reason I use FJ over Assaults is the price. Outside of that they do the same thing, and at least the Assaults can get a grenade worth using.

[Lt_Apollo]

AmPm, i see uour point but i must disagree. giving the sprint ability to this unit will help enchance the PEs doctrine of hitting hard and alow for a larger number of stratigic options. while HTs are great the PE should be able to function without relying soly on them like (from your post) you do. i personaly use my troops in a more infentry orented manner using assualt grens in combination with support units to beat back assualts or take over specific targets. i find assualt grens to be very effective in urban and forist areas where the enemy is forced into close combat as this alwows the Mp44s to get in range befor they can die.

while you aperantly use them as motorized infentry i beleave a assualt unit should be able to fufill its task fully and adding the spint ability (at a fair price) should once again in my opinion incress the usfullness of the PEs main Non Doctine Assualt Infentry.

i guess mine and your play styles are to difrent for you to apreciat the usfullnes of this small propesed change and thus i will respect your opinion on how you counter enemy infentry, but still i would rather be talking about the actual Pros and Cons of implementing this than finding alternatives as you are doing and thus this will be my last post directed to you AmPm.