Axis panzerschreck

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[Groundfire]

Ok, over the past few weeks I have been getting the feeling there is something odd with the accuracy of the panzerschrecks.

Long story short, they hit far too much at long range for having an accuracy modifier of 0.35 at long range vs. most heavy tanks, and a further 0.25 accuracy modifier vs. 57mm at any range.

But game after game, I keep on having this happen to me and my team mates...

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss38/groundfire_photos/relic00040.jpg
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss38/groundfire_photos/relic00041.jpg
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss38/groundfire_photos/relic00042.jpg

Of course the AT gun exploding is a lucky crit, but the accuracy for that schreck should have been extremely low

But this just cant be bad rolls because it happens every game I play in this mod. Panzerschreck long range is 35m, the common sight range for basic infantry, and i commonly see shreck squads standing at the FoW edge putting pinpoint accurate shots at a range where they can only have a 35% chance of hitting their target.

Having participated in the retail beta and scouring through the release notes the only changes for shrecks in beta are nerfs, and the drop buff from 0.3 to 0.6, so it doesnt seem to be a beta buff, and we can expect to see results similar to the shrecks used in retail which have nowhere near the accuracy and efficiency that shrecks have in EiRR.

Of course we all know that shrecks have a decent scatter angle of 15 degrees at the worst, and in the past it has been much lower. this is the average comparable scatter angle to every other handheld rocket infantry AT, with the zook having a 20 degree, PIATs having 12, and RR's having 5. Zooks dont hit at long range, and the Shreck should have similar but slightly better preformance.

If shrecks are infact actually still missing then hitting the target anyways through low scatter angle then im seeing shreck scatter angles that havent been used since like 1.6ish vCoH.

Now, this is not rocket science. There is a very logical reason why double shreck squads are a dime a dozen these days in wehrmacht armies, and that is because they are practically firing homing missles. They just dont miss, it's ridiculious.

Mabey im not privy to a specific EiR change where Shreck accuracy was changed, but afaik, the changing of stats is a no no for EiR.

Then again, mabey im just completely wrong about this too, but it is also quite possible that mabey a stat was implimented wrong. It's happened before in the past with such things as the wehr morter, remember when that thing raped in retail? yeah bugged damage tables.

If a Dev could comment to this i would be most appreciated. Mabey another once-over the schreck statistics would be in order, because as it is right now, it just doesnt seem right.

[wildfire444]

have to agree, long range shrek shots seem to hit a lot more then in retail.

or is this because shreks are a lot more common in this mod considering there is are like 2 shrek squads on the field at any given moment.

[Mysthalin_Axis]

I personaly believe shreks have a hidden(unintended) first-shot accuracy modifier.
To elaborate - a shrek will ALWAYS hit an advancing cromwell/sherman with the first shot at max range, but then miss 4 in a row at medium. However, if he comes out of engagement distance and comes back into it, he has the first shot modifier again, resulting in always-hitting shreckage.
Could the devs do a check whether such a modifier was in deed put in? Maybe it's done on accident?

[stumpster]

Panzerschrecks are using whatever the pre-beta stats are.

http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/wehrmacht/weapons/panzerschreck.html

These are the correct stats.  The one change from the beta that you missed was this:

- Panzerschreck accuracy vs AT guns reduced.

We haven't implemented that yet, so Pzshrecks are still as accurate vs. AT guns as they are in retail.  (AKA - they treat them as tanks, so very, very accurate instead of .25 or .35 or whatever it is in beta).

[Mysthalin_Axis]

Trouble is stumpster, shreks are supposed to have .35 accuracy vs tanks as well. So only 1 in three shreks should hit at long range. Currently, you're lucky if 1 in 4 DOESN'T hit.

[brn4meplz]

I see more schreks miss at long range then hit, Perhaps it's just a mental perception of the occurrence? Statistically speaking it should happen 35% of the time. which is a decent amount. Theres been times where i wish my schreks miss several times in a row and all i need is 1 hit. It's probably a combination of mental stress at them hitting on lucky rolls/targets thus imprinting the situation in your mind, and the general surplus of schrek squads. I know that when i play axis PIAT shots are left in my mind, partly because they are so numerous, but also because they function in ways other AT doesn't and they almost always penetrate for damage. Things like Bazooka's and RR's are doctrine specific, where as Schreks are available to both axis factions and compose a large part of their mobile AT efforts.

[stumpster]

Shreks are supposed to have .35 accuracy if you ignore all scattering statistics.  The thing is, people who just look at the scatter angle (15) assume automatically that the Shrek should be about even with the Bazooka (20).  However, this isn't the case.  The major difference between these two weapons is the Scatter Ratio, which is more important.  The Panzershreck (.5) Scatter Ratio is much closer to the Recoilless Rifle (.6) than the Bazooka (.3).  The Scatter Ratio works by actively changing the Max Scatter (circle around the target that you could hit).

Basically, scatter and all the stats associated with it lead to a lot of misinformation.  If you'd really like to go in-depth with it, I recommend you check this out:

http://www.coh-stats.com/basics/scatter.html

And then download Corsix to make changes and see exactly what happens ingame.

[Mysthalin_Axis]

Apparently, the higher the number on the Scatter Ratio, the more likely the projectile is to take a path that won't hit the target(use the max scatter ratio).

[Dnicee]

god  im so suprised... who can it be complaining about axis units? Dont see the allied pros do it and im sure i dont see any axis do it? So okay if shrecks are good but cmon we dont have stickes, fireflys or piats that can snipe and throw over hedges..

If i got this right you want the axis to be like hmm a frog`? total useless?


sorry for spelling im a bit wasted!

But so tired off a evereyone complaining about axis cmon get some skills as allied instead like smokaz or killer and everyone else!!!

[acker]

god  im so suprised... who can it be complaining about axis units? Dont see the allied pros do it and im sure i dont see any axis do it? So okay if shrecks are good but cmon we dont have stickes, fireflys or piats that can snipe and throw over hedges..

I would trade everything you listed and throw in Bazookas, Sherman 76s, and M8 mines if Riflemen, Sappers, and Tommies could purchase Panzerschreks. And, more importantly, if the Axis couldn't.

I don't understand the stats. Why would a higher scatter ratio mean a better hit chance? Because the RR has the highest, and it hits very, very well...

[MannfredvonRitter]

Way I see it, if you reverse away from a shreck, you increase the chance of being hit. Especially if you reverse away in a diagonal.

[Bubz]

Wait for next patch and pray things will be fixed

[Smokaz]

I 100 % agree with the original poster that something seems borked with the shreks in EiRR. Even when I keep my sherman at PERFECT max range with with a spotter, the double shrek squads seem to have awesome accuracy. I'm not saying its imbalanced but I think its very unforgiving towards the sherman as a unit. Veterancy or upgrades do very little to help the sherman against the panzershrek horde.

Its annoying to see people being able to fight off shermans with shreks only when the long range fighting should be done with the pak. Again: Im not saying its imbalanced. Maybe the sherman should be given +1 single range so that if you kept it at perfect distance from the shreks, they wouldnt be able to hit it. The same could be implemented for the RR/zook against the P4. Probably a bad idea, but I see the original poster's problem.

[BigDick]

panzerschreck is against medium and heavy armor and panzerfaust against light armor

if you wipe out a schrecksquad or make it retreat
there are 240mp and 220muni gone

if you not play john rambo with your sherman and move back after this to blobrepair, it is a very cost effective unit

and when you would use some other things then rangers in your company, you would have menpower and munitions for enough riflemen with bar to support your armor against AT infantry

and you could use your .50 cal sherman upgrade that helps a lot

your whole company is designed around vet rangermobs
that means many muni and menpower into it

now you are confronted with the weak sides of your build

[Smokaz]

What do rangers in my company have to do with the sherman?

[Mysthalin_Axis]

I invite you to try and snipe a shrek blob with a cromwell. You'll be lucky to get a shot off before violently exploding in a flurry of yellowish red.

[BigDick]

What do rangers in my company have to do with the sherman?

because you have no bar riflemen....by far the best support infantry for your shermans
and ontop of that you use no .50 sherman upgrade because you spend 140 muni into smgs of a kicking ass unit...

ranger are by far the strongest assault infantry but they don'T have supression...and that is what save your shermans

[Smokaz]

Look, .30 cal supression doesnt matter at long range where the sherman should be fighting shrek inf and Nobody walks the shrek horde into .30 cals. 

Both my shermans have .50 cals on them and command tank in support.  I can just make up new scenarios too if you want but this is all theory crafting, so lets give it a rest.

The original thread was about shreks hitting unaturally much at long range, and I still agree with this.

[brn4meplz]

Well the sherman can kite at max range, the only problem is most EiR games have a decent level of latency so your reverse commands come to late to act during the setup/windup time for the schrek squad. but even at max range it should hit 1 in 3 times.

[Bubz]

I have lots of barred rifles in my company so that my shermans are immune to schreks. I do also have mine sweeper engineers so that my atguns can countersnipe, I do even have lots of ap hmgs so that my halftracks can build emplacements.