[PE] Fallshirmjaegers

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[gamesguy1]

I haven't personally used them, but I have watched jack use falls to great effect. He rapes with his falls, so I never saw them as UP. And I have seen them used by other people to ill effect because they use them like KCH. Also the people that use them to the most effect are the people that bring them in on IHTs. I also think they should have their building spawning, because I've always thought it was a neat way to spawn.

But I think they had to take it out, because if they had that spawn ability, they would have to spawn instantly, because if there was a spawn timer on them, and someone gets into the building you wanted to spawn out of...

jack is a good player, riki, and any unit are good when played by a good player

try them out yourself and u will see that they are only good as defensive units or when pefectly used...e.g. at killing pinned units.

You're using them wrong then.

FG42s are basically bar equivelents.  They do a lot more damage than mp44s at long range, and is quite competative at close range too, but they suck oon the move.

Falls should go in halftracks, or be used to bait things into them across a road or other negative/no cover areas.  I've had falls melt an airborne squad in 4 seconds before they could even fire up and run away.   Find me another infantry unit that can do that except maybe storms with mp44s, which cost a helluva lot more than falls do.

[Pak88mm]

G43s i love since i love seeing rangers fireup and then get slowed and chewed up by a kitting AC or guess what? lol falls!

[Smokaz]

IMPORTANT POST FOR THE TOPIC.. I think.

I am one of those people who thinks balance should be done after the top-down model, aka the maximum utility you can have out of a unit decides how balanced it is.. even if it takes 10 clicks a second to achieve. I also think expecting lone rifle squads to just walk on roads constitutes the top type of play from the guy you are ambushing with the falls..

If you balance units like that, you are isolating one of two player's use of the units in all these scenarious we use to illustrate points about the game.. isolation like this is similar to labeling the howitzer as super-OP because if you perfectly place a 105 round on a guy who has all his units in one little spot they all die.. and it becomes a oversimplification of what happens ingame that becomes a incorrect basis to make balance decisions from.

You cant isolate one player's play from a two-player situation like what people are partly doing when they are saying that fallschirms are good or balanced based on Jack and his schirm use in game x when in fact it is one player raping the bad decisions by other players with a particular unit behaviour. Even if he raped some poor schmuck on a road, or some guy ran past with backs turned at perfect range against fallschirms in cover.. doesnt make the fallschirms good. "Player X charged 4 luftwaffe squads against a vet 3 ranger squad with thompson and nades in green cover and the rangers won the fight, wtf rangers so good and imba."

Trying to balance this mod, we have to look at what is good play on both sides, not just how one unit is used. This pretty obvious, at least for me, a thought that is seeping through the balance in EiR, in the original vanilla with the exceptions that we all spot and discuss as balance problems.. just look at the almost PERFECT balance between volks + mg against rifles + jeep in the original COH. It is balanced based on what both players do, not on what happens if one guy charges 3 riflesquads right into the mg. That rifles were taking the map faster was balanced out by the wehr player's ability to hold ground, etc etc etc. Perfectly defeating all flanks had just as big reward as overrunning the wehr position in terms of manpower preservation through mgs vs difficulty in using mgs offensively to retake. I could talk about how early american power and shock units was intended to balance out the powerful wehr lategame.. I could list a hundred examples.

Also, the ease of which you are able to perform a action with a unit type is also a BIG balancing factor.. meaning that its intuitive balancing that a thing that is hard to do (guess where he is coming, get into cover in time, having hold fire on and manually telling them to fire on a specific squad on top of the camoed schirms having about 15 degrees which they can turn before ambush is "canceled" like Piat ambush.). compared to say.. firing up, moving to green cover and throwing a nade should be less powerful than the hassle of a fallschirm ambush.. UNLESS it is impossible to counter, which it isnt, because schirms are uncloaked by a jeep just the same way as storms.

[puddin]

YEs, and as far as assult infantry go, theres assult grens....

As far as falls go.  Why not make them different form grens and storms?  Ya know its Panzer Elite and not Wheremacht right? 

If you want grens,Rienforments or better yet play Where.  IF you want stealth, sneaky, ambushes, play lutwaffa.   

They aar enot ment to be frontline infantry, they are ment to be ambush infantry.  Put them in cover and ambush people  Thats what Falls are.  Yes they are weaker but if you ambush people by the time people react its oh shit i have lost 1-2 mewen wheres cover?  and then its a mad dash away. 

I don;t see why people want the brits more american and the PE more Wher... The point of new factions is didfferent play with them...

[MannfredvonRitter]

Ultimately this wasn't a FJ suck thread (albeit FJ are probably the hardest elite infantry to use in the game...).

I routinely rape and get 10-20 kills on FJ squads. The issue is more the paradrop which sucks, I would much rather on map or building deployment.

The in building deployment helps FJ to use their weapons to their fullest but isn't an 'I win' button.

I haven't seen many people disagreeing with the building deployment option in general so I wonder if it's possible to see it again, if it sucks it can always be changed back to the drop ?

To comment on puddings post, I think that this style of deployment compliments their ambush nature. Paradrop is more in line with assault infantry and rangers/airborne. FJ do not fit into this style of warfare, not even a little.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Paradrop or building deployment wouldn't make any difference to the timer, which is in place for other reasons.

[Malevolence]

Let them paradrop or use building deployment - both are fine options, especially when put together. Makes Fallschirmjagers unique. If they can drop from the sky OR get out of buildings OR walk at the on map point that'd be cool.

[CommanderHolt]

I'm up for adding building deployment, it's the best way of being on the field without an audio cue as unlike airborne and Commando which comes in noisily as they pretty much meant for almost complete stealth and surprise rather then assaulting an enemy position from another direction.

Falls shouldn't be an assault unit but rather as people say, an ambush/defensive unit.

Also it would be great for them to be at least be able to arm them with at least a PE Panzershreck which would actually make it ambush bonus useful.