[Wehr] Price decrease on wher panther?

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[RikiRude]

Smokaz brought something to my attention in another thread. But first off how many people actually run panthers in their wher companies? And how many people have played against 3 wher players and saw nothing but P4 after P4?

Right now lets look at the price of the panther vs the P4.

Panther - 770 MP and 590 Fuel  742 Health
P4 - 400 MP and 260 Fuel 600 health
2 P4s - 800 MP and 520 Fuel 1200 health

With prices at this, it's pretty much saying one panther is worth about 2 P4s... which it obviously isn't especially with how EiRR is with repair rates, it's usually better to have two lower health units then invest it all into one high health unit. Even with it's better armor, I'd rather have 2 P4s. Needless to say, I have not seen a panther in a very long time from a wher player.

Simply stated I think we need to give the Panther a price decrease, by how much? I don't know, hopefully someone can give a good suggestion, maybe by 100 MP and 50 fuel? something that will make it worth getting, but not too low.

[31stPzGren]

Reduce manpower cost significantly.

In my opinion as mentioned in another post. Manpower should refer to the ability of the unit to kill infantry most of the time. Fuel should refer to its invulnerability to small arms fire, toughness against anti tank fire and the ability to kill tanks.

A panther can kill 2 shermans... but it definitely can't kill 2 shermans worth of infantry and the 2 shermans can potentially kill the panther as well.

Manpower cost needs a drop. You can actually reference vCoH pricing for this.

[Scyn]

Ahem.. 520 fuel not 620.

[Mysthalin]

I personaly love the panther, and therefore would have no quarrel with it's price being reduced.
Think it should just change to 14 popcap, though, and be done with it. Why would I ever field a Panther at 16 pop when a TA at 18, or a T at 17 can do so much better?

[CafeMilani]

2 P4s are 520 fuel.

with mgs and skirts 2 P4s are much better than a panther, thats right
and a panther is only effective against tanks..

but does it really need a price decrease?

maybe compare it to a FF: a FF is 390fuel atm, thats 200 less than the panther
the panther MAYBE needs a slight fuel cost decrease, 20-40 or so

[Mysthalin]

it is other heavy tanks that are to cheap (like the pershing)

Please elaborate as to why the pershing is too cheap?

[Scyn]

I'd be all for a cost decrease on the Panther if it somehow didn't reflect on why the Panther costs what it does. So the manpower I can see decreased to 650 ish.. but the fuel needs to stay the same.

[Smokaz]

If a panther was the FUEL price of around 2 shermans, that would be pretty allright. Two upgunned shermans will give the panther a hard time after all, and upgunned shermans were never intended to be mainline at, if they were they should be penetrating king tigers and aces, which they dont. 

PS: Can we just remove post #6 to #13 from this thread please?

[Draken]

Panther price is okay IMO. If u are good in microing tank in can survive whole game and kill much more then it's worth. Only dangerous thing is stickie, which Panther with it's speed can avoid very easy.

[RikiRude]

Reduce manpower cost significantly.

In my opinion as mentioned in another post. Manpower should refer to the ability of the unit to kill infantry most of the time. Fuel should refer to its invulnerability to small arms fire, toughness against anti tank fire and the ability to kill tanks.

A panther can kill 2 shermans... but it definitely can't kill 2 shermans worth of infantry and the 2 shermans can potentially kill the panther as well.

Manpower cost needs a drop. You can actually reference vCoH pricing for this.

I never thought of that, but that makes incredible sense!

Also to draken, if you have good tank micro... wouldn't having 2 P4s be more useful then 1 panther.

I'm thinking of trying to add a panther to my wher company right now to see if I can make it as useful as 2 P4s.

And I apologize for my bad math in my OP =P with 2 P4 fuel.

[Mysthalin]

Apex's Panther Ace guide is always there to help you out, Riki ^^.

[Draken]

Also to Draken, if you have good tank micro... wouldn't having 2 P4s be more useful then 1 panther.

If your tank micro is poor medium tanks are good for you, if u know how to use heavy tanks, they become really OP. I also tried Hetzer, people were bitching that it's so UP, 4 cromwell + light vechicles + around 20 inft kills in one game, showed me what is the issue, people just need to L2P.

Or lol bitching about TA, it has one weakness - IT'S you (how it's possible?!) Even if u try to loose TA it can be hard lol...

[CafeMilani]

If a panther was the FUEL price of around 2 shermans, that would be pretty allright. Two upgunned shermans will give the panther a hard time after all, and upgunned shermans were never intended to be mainline at, if they were they should be penetrating king tigers and aces, which they dont. 

PS: Can we just remove post #6 to #13 from this thread please?

smokaz ur right

2 upgunned shermans kill a panther and would cost 110 mun more than it but a panther isnt good at killing infantry while upgunned shermans still are.
500 mun would be ok

and compared to the pershing..even with skirts the panther definately loses the fight

[BigDick]

afaik they don't implemented the balancing beta skirts so they work only on infantry handheld AT like bazookas piats recoiless....

[CafeMilani]

oh...ok then the panther should definately cost 500 fuel

[RikiRude]

i dont have a problem using the panther, but you guys aren't saying it's weird that no one ever sees panthers fielded by the wher?

[31stPzGren]

The argument has always been COST EFFECTIVENESS its like people saying... would you use this-and-this if it cost this much?

Does the extra few seconds to call in 2 Pz IVs make it better than having only 1 Panther? Do you really need that extra tank hunting capability?

[Tymathee]

Panther > 2 p4's

[salan]

lots of different reasons to use either really.

mmm vet ... mmm

[sgMisten]

I don't use the Panther, Tiger MKI, King Tiger and Pershing in EiR's current state because I don't find their cost/effectiveness ratio to be worth it. Too expensive a unit, with high pop cap cost, for what they can do. Several medium tanks (Pz4, Sherman, Cromwell) offer more flexibility and room for error. ATGs handle AT duties most of the time.

The only exceptions to heavy tanks for me is the Tiger Ace, which is good in all areas, and the Churchill Crocodile, which has a lot of limitations but is awfully gratifying to use when it burns out 20 infantry in a few seconds.

Any issue the panther has, the other mentioned heavy tanks have it too, and this should be considered.