[PE] New AC and IHT Armor

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[RikiRude]

What do you guys think of it thus far? I personally thought with the dodge rate and speed AC never needed any kind of buff, just use it as hit and run. And the IHT armor, I thought it was going to be a bit OP, but it doesn't seem to be too much trouble, just make sure you put AP rounds on your MG (you were doing that anyways right?). And the people who play a lot of PE, how much has the extra survivability helped you?

[MistenTH]

Get the brits to weigh in too. They used to be able to kill with bren guns. Guess now Piats + button will be needed until a 17pounder / Bofors / Tank moves up.

[Smokaz]

Apart from ac/iht against unsupported infantry, these changes are blown out proportion. At guns nail both units in 2 hits and stickies still disable them.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

AT guns killed them in 2 hits before. Of course, they could actually hit ACs before.

[SaintPauli]

The change is not a problem. The problem is that it is better and so much cheaper than a puma.

[VaginaOfBravery]

Then again, both the Puma and the AC is faction specific units only available to PE or Wehr and not through reinforcements, afaik..

[MistenTH]

AT guns killed them in 2 hits before. Of course, they could actually hit ACs before.

? Dodge chance got changed?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

They now get a 20% moving bonus against 57s.

(base accuracy at long: .65)

[panzerjager1943]

Yea but it's going to do more damage to the PE AC 'cause it has much less health. (PE AC = 220hp, Wehr 234/1 = 310hp.)
Inf Halftracks (with Wehr Armour) recieve 50% more damage from AT guns than they used to before (US and Wehr HT Armour recieves 150% damage from AT guns, while 22x Armour recieves 100%.)

[TheDeadlyShoe]

there is no meaningful difference between 220 (AC), 300 (IHT) and 310 (Puma) when facing 57mm fire. it's a 2 shot kill regardless if it's puma/halftrack/puma or 22x/22x/puma.

granted, hte first shot will do more damage, but I don't think anyone would trade small arms immunity for mildly less damage from 57. especially not when the natural prey of the IHT uses small arms.

[gamesguy2]

Get the brits to weigh in too. They used to be able to kill with bren guns. Guess now Piats + button will be needed until a 17pounder / Bofors / Tank moves up.

The new piats are more than sufficient to deal with ACs, I'd take them over bazookas right now, they're almost as good as RRs.

[RikiRude]

I watched 6 piats in a building (1 sapper squad shooting 3 times) only land 1 hit on an AC =/

[panzerjager1943]

there is no meaningful difference between 220 (AC), 300 (IHT) and 310 (Puma) when facing 57mm fire. it's a 2 shot kill regardless if it's puma/halftrack/puma or 22x/22x/puma.

Puma has a chance to survive 3 shots, as it has more than 300 hitpoints (2 57mm shots.) Also, while the shotcount remains, it means if the unit manages to survive the AT gun, it's much more vulnerable to any other Infantry AT, Tanks, etc. than before, AND takes longer to repair.

The cost of the IHT and AC may change. IHT is practically garaunteed.

[gamesguy2]

I watched 6 piats in a building (1 sapper squad shooting 3 times) only land 1 hit on an AC =/

Thats about the norm for shreks vs M8.

It usually doesnt miss that much though, one piat sapper squad is a significant thread to an AC.   Theyre like cheaper shreks that can kill infantry now.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

...A PIAT only has a 12% chance of rolling a hit against a moving light vehicle at long range. 26% at medium. That hasn't changed at all. And any light vehicle driver moving properly can dodge scatter.

they are more of a threat to ACs and IHTs now because people keep charging their light armor to point blank for maximum kills. noones forcing people to do that. 

for comparison, a bazooka has 26% at moving/long and 45% at moving/medium.

Also, a Greyhound is more pop and less dangerous to infantry, as well as costing significantly more.  And in terms of the meta-game, PaKs decimate light vehicles while allied 57s and 17s do not.

***

A Puma only has a 1 in 3 chance of surviving 2 shots, and if it does the main gun will be destroyed. More survivable than an AC or IHT, but not by much.  Repair time doesn't mean much - noone can keep PE light armor in full repair while still fielding enough units to contest the field.

[gamesguy2]

...A PIAT only has a 12% chance of rolling a hit against a moving light vehicle at long range. 26% at medium. That hasn't changed at all. And any light vehicle driver moving properly can dodge scatter.

they are more of a threat to ACs and IHTs now because people keep charging their light armor to point blank for maximum kills. noones forcing people to do that. 

for comparison, a bazooka has 26% at moving/long and 45% at moving/medium.

Also, a Greyhound is more pop and less dangerous to infantry, as well as costing significantly more.  And in terms of the meta-game, PaKs decimate light vehicles while allied 57s and 17s do not.

Scatter contributes the majority of hits.  Due to the decreased scatter modifiers, the piat is very accurate on the scatter now, and moving vehicles do not always dodge scattered shots.   Piats are artillery, so a scatted shot that missed in the direction the vehicle is moving will still hit and do damage.

M8 is also light anti-vehicle, not exactly a fair comparison if you want to compare cost.

And in terms of metagame, the 17 pounder is much more powerful against tanks, 57 is worse than the pak yes, but we're talking about Brits here...

[Bubz]

Neither AC nor IHT are meant to be immune to small arms fire, both of them are used as main line AI rapecannons now, two rifles bar in cover don't stand a chance and will die in 10 secs, the speed of the ac allow it to easily dodge 57mm shots and stay outside its range kiting infantry. Not to mention city maps where its speed is even a bigger advantage to rape infantry in buildings. A single IHT is now able to kill infantry supported hmgs frontally. I had a barred squad plus flame engies garrisoned in a house dying to a single AC that sneaked behind my slow 57mm.
Imho it's wrong and completly out of place, like giving riflemen elite armor and rr's or thompsons.
I have 4 atguns and 3 stickis in my company, which now have to deal with even more vehicles that can easily kill them while my infantry gets raped.

At least before AC's required micro to win and IHT too, now it's a joke and every noob can just overdrive-> sneak behind enemy lines-> rape.

[gamesguy2]

Try putting AP rounds on your MGs.

They rape ACs before the AC can begin to dodge.

[Bubz]

If you can give me the munition I didn't need before I would be pleased.

[Akranadas]

If you can give me the munition I didn't need before I would be pleased.

AP rounds are 20 munitions... Running 5 HMGs in my company, that's 100 Munitions, and they kill more AC and IHT than any of my other AT options. Best investment ever.