[All] Mortar Comparisons

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[MistenTH]

Look at price list:

3in Mortar emplacement - 400 MP, 55 Mun, 4 pop
(Range, durability)
Ami Mortar - 460 MP, 50 Mun, 4 pop
(Rate of fire)
Mortar Commando's - 495 MP, 60 Mun, 4 pop (Smoke - 300 seconds)
(Rate of fire)
Wehr Mortar - 495 MP, 70 Mun, 4 pop
(Range, damage)
Mortar Halftrack - 440 MP, 60 Mun, 60 F, 6 pop (thanks GG, pricelist was wrong)
(Mobility, damage)

Assuming mortar stats stay as they are in 004, I'd say the 3in mortar emplacement is underpriced thanks to its new range and durability. I haven't used the commando mortar, but I've heard it's similar to the ami mortar in use except that it has smoke. From using and fighting against the mortar HT it doesn't seem to be as deadly as the Wehr mortar, mainly because it goes boom quite easily and has short range.

If I can make a suggestion:

3in Mortar emplacement - 495 MP, 70 Mun, 4 pop
(Price+)(availability in supply set to 1 for commando & engineers, 2 for RCA)
Ami Mortar - 400 MP, 50 Mun, 4 pop
(Price-)
Mortar Commando's - 400 MP, 60 Mun, 4 pop (Smoke - 300 seconds)
(Price-)
Wehr Mortar - 495 MP, 70 Mun, 4 pop
(Same, taken as standard)
Mortar Halftrack - 440 MP, 60 Mun, 60 F, 5 pop
(Pop-)

Reasoning being:
The ami and commando mortars having to get in closer to mortar, meaning they die more easily, plus they don't actually do much damage.

Mortar pit has to go up in price at least to match Wehr mortar, due to range and durability. Availability set to 1 and 2 in supply since it's a powerful unit.

MHT, despite it's ownage in vCoH, doesn't seem to own as much here. Pop cap is crippling for a mortar unit that has short range.

[Wiking1FJ]

You gotta be joking about the MHT. That thing is serious ownage, on my PE i would average 15+ kills per MHT, in which normally i would mismirco the first one then have to call in the second. Iirc the last game i just played the MHT in that game had 17-1-1-0. I rarely see the unit under 10 kills if its on the field, and with incin round you can easily kill enemy mortars and atgs ezpz. And ontop of that its nearly impossible to counter if the user is competent in anyway. Arty? no problem ill park behind a building. Man pack AT? no problem got an mg for that. ATG? ha, saw ya coming from a mile away. Tank? hidden pak ninja gooo. As you can see, in any kind of stalemate game this thing cleans up, and in anyother game... this thing cleans up.

[gamesguy2]

The MHT does not cost 110 munitions, it cost 60, another 65 if you want the incendiary shell.

[MistenTH]

Outdated price list ftw :p

Then yea it's more or less where I think it should be already. But I still think pop needs to go down by 1.

Wiking, how do you have a MG42 and a Pak. Are you a Wehr player with the reinforcement unlock? Reinforcements creates a lot of synergies, but we still need to balance the factions on their own without reinforcements.

[RikiRude]

Does the fast rate of fire on the US mortar mean its first round lands quicker then the Wher mortar?

[Wiking1FJ]

PE + PE = Fail
PE + Wehr = Success

90% of teams will have wehr involved.

[Smokaz]

Meh, personally I think the wehr mortar is best because it has the longest range, the highest damage (?) and can be recrewed/abandoned.

Basically the mortar power list:

Wehr mortar
British mortar pit
Mortar Halftrack
British commando mortar
American mortar

The 3" mortar pit is godly when employed defensively. It takes around 8 pak hits to destroy, its durability makes it crazy. In the current retail patch it is one of the most hated units in the game because it so effectively lock down the area around it against MGs and enemy mortars. Its immune to a lot of damage types as well.

 Imo the mortar pit cannot both have the durability it has now AND the ability to counter mortar the wehr mortar, for the sake of balance AND for the sake of now overshadowing the american and british mortar teams.

[MistenTH]

Does the fast rate of fire on the US mortar mean its first round lands quicker then the Wher mortar?

Don't think first round lands any faster. But it can get like 2.5 rounds by the time Wehr one gets 1.5 rounds in, something like that.

Anyway Wiking, MHT is already 60 mun, so would you like to increase MHT mun cost back to 110?

Smokaz > Mortar pit is tricky. If you keep its range but lower durability, it can be easily destroyed by arty or counter mortar fire since it takes too long to unpack. If you keep durability but reduce range, then it's able to keep area control for a while, but counter mortar fire will still destroy it eventually.

Being relatively immobile, big range and durability, the mortar pit creates a new kind of mortar capability that is interesting to keep around. It makes sense too; prepared positions can mount heavier equipment and have more protection set up.

Rather than remove this new faucet of mortar warfare; I think balancing through price and availability would be a more interesting alternative so that spamming them comes at a price. Another way is to reduce its rate of fire so that it can still keep area control, but is less deadly.

Also on durability, I made some comments in the emplacements thread. Basically things like incin-nades, nebel, MHT, DoT right now do almost no damage. They should do 20-25% damage once whole DoT is in, so that they are effective in forcing emplacements to move. This gives axis a long range counter to mortar pits, like how allied arty is used against the wher mortar. AT nade damage needs to be buffed against emplacements too, it's a tickle at the moment.

[acker]

Don't think first round lands any faster. But it can get like 2.5 rounds by the time Wehr one gets 1.5 rounds in, something like that.

How fast are the actual fire rates for the two weapons? My brain is really dead atm, and COH-stats is failing me...

I have a question about the mortars: did any *damage dealt* change due to the removal of Soldier Armor?

[MistenTH]

Don't think first round lands any faster. But it can get like 2.5 rounds by the time Wehr one gets 1.5 rounds in, something like that.

How fast is the actual fire rate for the two weapons? My brain is really dead atm, and COH-stats is failing me...

There are a lot of factors involved, but if i read it correctly. All the mortars have a cooldown time of ~7 seconds, but observation shows they all don't take more than 7 seconds to fire a round. Though mortar barrage reduces cooldown to 0.75 though.

Wehr - about 5 seconds to launch a 36 damage round.
Ami - about 3.7 seconds to launch a 20 damage round. (2x against inf armour)

To add on:

PE -about 5 seconds to launch 36 damage round.
Brit - about 3.7 seconds to launch 20 damage round. (2x against inf armour)

Someone might want to confirm these numbers by timing the mortars in-game.

[gamesguy2]

Don't think first round lands any faster. But it can get like 2.5 rounds by the time Wehr one gets 1.5 rounds in, something like that.

How fast are the actual fire rates for the two weapons? My brain is really dead atm, and COH-stats is failing me...

I have a question about the mortars: did any *damage dealt* change due to the removal of Soldier Armor?

Yes, mortars didn't get a modifier vs soldier armor, which means the wehr mortar used to pwn tommies but not anymore.  Now the wehr mortar vs tommies is more like the American mortar vs grenadiers.

And the American mortar used to be worthless vs PE because it relied upon a modifier against infantry to do its damage, which it didnt get vs soldier armor.  Now that the American mortar gets the proper modifier, its basically in the same boat as the wehr mortar.

All in all its a lot more balanced now.

[MistenTH]

Eh GG your 1st and 2nd paragraphs seem to be contradicting. Mortars didn't get a modifier vs soldier armour, yet wehr mortar pwns soldier armour tommies but ami one didn't against soldier armour pzgs?

Yea relic makes things really confusing with all the different armour types and damage modifiers. Several infantry armour types, emplacements have 2 different armour types, several light vehicle armour types, different damage modifiers for the same weapon against different vehicles some for no apparent reason. ZZZ.

[gamesguy2]

Eh GG your 1st and 2nd paragraphs seem to be contradicting. Mortars didn't get a modifier vs soldier armour, yet wehr mortar pwns soldier armour tommies but ami one didn't against soldier armour pzgs?

Yea relic makes things really confusing with all the different armour types and damage modifiers. Several infantry armour types, emplacements have 2 different armour types, several light vehicle armour types, different damage modifiers for the same weapon against different vehicles some for no apparent reason. ZZZ.

Wehr mortar does 36 damage, with no modifier vs soldier armor it pwned tommies.

American mortar does 20 damage, it gets 2x modifier vs infantry armor, but no such modifier vs soldier armor means it does piddly damage to PGs.

Its a lot more balanced now with everything at infantry armor.  Basically American mortar does 40 dmg/hit to PGs, and wehr mortar does 36 dmg/hit to tommies, same goes for the pit/MHT(both are the same as American mortar IIRC).

Btw, wehr mortar is unique in that it rapes vehicles.  It does almost 80 damage/hit to them.

[MistenTH]

Gawd I hate relic. Just checked. Commando mortar and mortar emplacement both have 2x modifier against inf armour. MHT has 1x modifier, but has 36 damage.

So now that armour is normalised, essentially all mortars do the same damage to infantry except for some exceptions like KCH.

Taking Wehr mortar as standard:
Ami / commando mortar (more damage over time for less range)
Mortar HT (more mobility for less range)
Mortar pit (more range, more durability, more damage over time for no mobility)

Mortar pit definitely needs a price increase, it gets a lot more advantages right now. I'd rather it keep those advantages to differentiate it from other mortars, but in that case it must be more expensive. Maybe the mortar pit should get it's rate of fire to become slower though. Right now it's at ami mortar speed, it ought to be at Wehrmacht mortar firing speed to balance it out some.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

To use its range the mortar pit has to fire at standard rate rather than barrage rate.  That's a disadvantage, although presumably it will be patched out.

[Mysthalin]

What the mortar pit change did, was remove the wehr's domination in a stalemate that did not involve heavy arty(mostly in an early-game situation).

Naturally, wehr players are extremely unhappy with it.

Mortar emp needs to take more damage, tho ^^.

[Mgallun74]

yes, less mp on american motar please, thanks.

[sgMisten]

Don't think first round lands any faster. But it can get like 2.5 rounds by the time Wehr one gets 1.5 rounds in, something like that.

How fast is the actual fire rate for the two weapons? My brain is really dead atm, and COH-stats is failing me...

There are a lot of factors involved, but if i read it correctly. All the mortars have a cooldown time of ~7 seconds, but observation shows they all don't take more than 7 seconds to fire a round. Though mortar barrage reduces cooldown to 0.75 though. (Update: The 7 seconds CD does matter, normal mortar pit attack is 1 shell every 10 seconds, so I presume all mortars are similar for the auto attack. But the barrage makes all mortars drop CD to 0.75, so do they all fire almost similarly fast?)

Wehr - about 5 seconds to launch a 36 damage round.
Ami - about 3.7 seconds to launch a 20 damage round. (2x against inf armour)

To add on:

PE -about 5 seconds to launch 36 damage round.
Brit - about 3.7 seconds to launch 20 damage round. (2x against inf armour)

Someone might want to confirm these numbers by timing the mortars in-game.

[CafeMilani]

yes, less mp on american motar please, thanks.

no NOT less cost on allied arty units, they have enough, srsly.
when doctrines come out, the spamming will begin again -.-


again a rediculous post mgallun..."hey devs, change this and this and this (ally) unit, thank youu!  (no personal attack, lol)
and they change it 

[Mgallun74]

yes, less mp on american motar please, thanks.

no NOT less cost on allied arty units, they have enough, srsly.
when doctrines come out, the spamming will begin again -.-


again a rediculous post mgallun..."hey devs, change this and this and this (ally) unit, thank youu!  (no personal attack, lol)
and they change it 

lol.. go fly a kite dude.