Suggestions for 1.5

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[Schultz]

A) Mobile support weapons for Brits. Mg, mortar, and pounder able to move for like 1/3 of the american atg.
Emplacements should be an upgrade for the support teams, for better effectiveness. High build time, low time to depack.

B) HMG for PE.

Furthermore :
1) Increase pop for tommies to 6.
2) Increase munition to FOO from 100 - 150/180. Increase time shells fall. Right now they come instantly.
3) Increase bar cost to 85-90 . Bars are abundant now. Lmg shoudl be adjusted accordingly. (my bad )
4) Increase Bren upgrade cost for tommies to 100 or more.
4) Change skirts to how they were. Make them purchasable at vet 2 if possible.
5) Reduce effectiveness of piats. The most important thing is, there shouldnt be a unit that can obliterate anything in their path, be it tank or infnatry and be blobbed successfully as piat sappers are now. Increase price nonetheless to 90-100.
6)Reduce price to mp44s for stormies. 1st to 90, second to 100-110.
7) Change damage modifiers of tanks vs emplacements, nebelwerfer etc.


What have we witnessed so far is
a) the tremendous failure of assault weapons due to the vast amount of long range/aoe weapons that came with OF and in particular the british. Bren/Rifle nades/piats are overly effective and with each patch were becoming better.
In an effort to make british more playable they got overbuffed. Packed with the bar suppression they have become a combo that you cant fight. Adjust the prices, revert the assault - long range weapons to balance again.
Moreover, the systemic idea of the brit blob needs to break down, and its not to be done only with balance cost.
People blob/sim city because there isnt anything else. Break this down give them their own mobile support weps. The hybrid of commandos/airborne support weapons as reinforcements or the armor doctrine show the way. People chose mobile support weps. They chose the american atg.
British lack variety. And in what they lack they fill with spam, and static gameplay. The mod will benefit if you strike both of these down.

b) For PE i didnt really take enough time to write this, but there are numerous threads all over including this one posing for suggestions for changes for units.
But the most importantly one for PE is that this is NOT vcoh. PE like every other faction need suppression. PE didnt come her just to spam as they do in vcoh.
You cant go on mindlessly spamming ACs or pzgrens and busters here.
PE require suppression to lock down territory and to defend ! Yes to defend themselves, in the same manner as all the other 3 factions do.
How do you expect double PEs to defend ? With assault grens, falls and halftacks ?
This game was built with the base of suppression. And in a world of suppression, you need to be able to suppress back!

[Rocksitter]

 This looks like a move in the right direction...

[MannfredvonRitter]

I have some of my own:

1). Reduce Marder II pop to 6, PE at solutions are low, without the gren double shreck reinforcements they're at a big disadvantage versus many builds.
2). Change casualty rate for HT's (currently it's almost always 100% which is a huge nerf to pe, if you're lucky one guy lives, but rarely)
3). Reduce MU cost for Assault grenadiers, they really, really aren't that good and most people don't use them at all as a result of their fail. Either that of increase suppression resistance to make them better.
4). Fix the vierling, it crashes games when it comes to party, also increase vierling cost by 40 mu or so, but increase range drastically to 45-50 or so and increase line of sight by 10-15.
5). Decrease build time on the flak88, it fails to deploy in skilled hands 50% of the time. Should probably be halved. Same with vierling. I would argue for a pop decrease here too, 6 pop for a static emplacement.
6). Reduce mortar HT pop to 5
7). This one will annoy people but remove the IHT from the reinforcement packages. Its the one unit which truly makes the PE unique and along with that, it becomes ridiculously OP when used by wehrmacht.
. Decrease of Hummel price, it's way too expensive currently, even if it's good.

[Mysthalin]

Schultz, your suggestions are extremely one-sided, sorry to say that.

A) support weapons that move at an incredible speed of 1... Yeah, that's gonna happen, and people will buy them ALL the time.


B) Not needed for two reasons :
1) PE is not wehr, it woudln't fit.
2) That's what reinforcements are for.

Continuing

1)All line/base infantry are 5 popcap. Tommies are not stronger, no matter what you think, they are not. Tommies should be kept the same. If it's their UPGRADES that make them too powerful, make the upgrades give extra popcap costs(same way extra man for PE does).

2)FOO, with a single use at 150-180 cost would be extremely overpriced. Shell fall time needs fixing, though.

3)Aren't LMGs 75 munitions, just like the BAR is? What about the G43, which is of comparable usefullness to the BAR? If the BAR goes up, LMG and G43 needs to go up as well.

4) Epic agree. Rifle nades made 90 mun, tho - they're not that powerful.

4.5?) No, skirts were just TOO powerful. They're fine as is right now. Vet 2 would probably be acceptable if the power was reverted, though.

5) Revert PIAT to pre-0.0.4. It was just about right then, capable of killing, but not always hitting. Price must remain the same if the PIAT was reverted(which it should be), otherwise a 90-100 mun cost would be appropriate with the current effectiveness.

6) 90 mun for first 70 for second would be my offer. The second upgrade doesn't really give the storm squad that much more increased firepower.

7) A change in emplacement vulnearability to nebs and tanks is needed.

My proposed changes :

1) Marder III pop to 6.
2) Standardise a 40-50 percent casualty rate(not chance to die like it is now) on halftrack death. Would remove a lot of random gibbing of entire halftracked squads.
3) Increase max ammount of assault grenadiers per company to 5-6 instead of 4. Give free incendiary nades(they're ASSAULT grenadiers for crying out loud!)
4) Remove IHT from reinforcement pacakges, as mannred suggested. They're just way too powerful with double-shrecking gren squads.
5) Reduce 17 pdr range so that it can be outranged by the mortar halftrack by exactly 1 unit.
6) Panther reduce cost by 50 fuel. Both Wehr and PE variants.
7) PE P4 IS cost set to match ostwind.
8.) PE AC increase cost by 15 fuel.
9) Stuart have a 0.8 incoming damage modifier against shreks. It dies to 2 shreks way too often.
10) Vickers MG nest cost changed to match american .30 cal
11) Fix Vickers MG so it doesn't get stuck when attempted to retreat/reposition.
12) Change FOO to drop shells after a 3.5 second interwal instead of what it is right now.
13) Change Pak 38 to have standard 35 LOS when cloaked.
14) Emplacements should take around 25 more damage from tanks(except StuH) than they do right now. Nebelwerfer DoT should do at least 5 DPS to the emplacement itself.
15) Change Brit Tommy Bren cost to 100, riflenade to 90.
16) Revert PIATs to just before 0.0.4 They were rather make-shift AT, but it suited them. Now they hit tanks way too often.
17) Fix targetting issues on anti-tank tanks by reworking the targetting priorities. Noone wants their tetrarch shooting grenadiers when there's a dozen better targets near by, including P4s, Tigers and LATHTs.
18.) Severely reduce the price, or severely reduce scatter rate of hummel.
19) Set 25pdr build time to 30 seconds, 15 is just too low.

[EliteGrens]

4) Remove IHT from reinforcement pacakges, as mannred suggested. They're just way too powerful with double-shrecking gren squads.

If an infantry Halftrack runs into an at gun or a bunch of zooks its completely useless.
And how will this stop PE players getting Terror reinforcements to still do this?

[Mysthalin]

Wow, if it will run into it's natural counter instead of the thing it's meant to kill it will die, it's not like this applies to everything from KCH to Panthers?
At least with the PE it will fit the whole theme of the PE - mobility and hard hitting. It just works balanced with the PE. With wehr, and all their other parallel tactics, this becomes OP.

[Piotrskivich]

Don't give HMG to the PE they can get that in a reinforcement pack or use halftrack.

[Piotrskivich]

I think to stop the piat spam really an easy thing to do would be decrease it's damage vs infantry to like 1/4 or something. It is not mean't as a infantry killer at all. I would love to see piats used like schreks in the way that people buy them and use them for anti tank.

[Tymathee]

You had me going there thinking you were good until the storms

6) With the first one they only get one mp44 in the squad and still have 3 kar98's, yet, when you upgrade to the 2nd one, it gives every storm trooper the squad an mp44, which if not making them more powerful, ensure that as they lose people, someone always has an mp44 and they don't lose firepower until they get to one man.

Yours....

1) really? it's a tank pretty much. I play as PE and Marders are fine at 8 pop. Although I can see your argument as to why, they're still mobile and faily immune to small arms fire.

2) yea. i always get 1 guy each of my schrecks left if my iht dies. no matter what really kinda funny, whether i get the extra man or not, one guy lives.

3) Hmm...it's cheap as is and they're awesome vs emplacements and espcially trenches. two can completely destroy a trench.

4) lol yes...i' haven't seen it but it sounds insane.

5) Agree there, but at the same time, it still needs LOS and i've killed plenty of 17 pds with my mortar ht.

6) hmm, dont know how that' change much.

7) its more powerful than ostwind, it can kill anything without tank armor pretty fasat and when you lock it down, it is basically a mini artillery unit.

Eight) you only get 3 in availability, i dont see them as very power really and it takes so lil to kill one.

9) Ha...or at least give more than one canister round.

10) ? should be cheaper imo, vickers sucks worse than .30 cal

11) Ha, definite change needed. The unit doesn't get stuck, it pretty much vanishes from the playing field, if you notice, you dont get that pop stuck on you, it's just gone.

12) Agreed. I dont think there's a warning smoke either.

13)

14) oK.

15) Brens are thte best man machine geun right now, i agree.

16) Piats I think should get their rear modifer lowered, right now they're viable at weaposn but because half the time from the front they hit "rear" armor, its really powerful. a full volley of standard sapper blob can take out a tank.

17) lol yes, priorities need fixing: D

[Tymathee]

4) Remove IHT from reinforcement pacakges, as mannred suggested. They're just way too powerful with double-shrecking gren squads.

If an infantry Halftrack runs into an at gun or a bunch of zooks its completely useless.
And how will this stop PE players getting Terror reinforcements to still do this?

good pt

[Mysthalin]

Tym, with the first upgrade you get 2 MP44s, and another 2 with the second. It's always been widely acknowledged back in EiR buying the second MP44 wasn't really necessary because it gave too little of a DPS boost. If you buy just 1 MP44 upgrade, they switch hands as the storms die, so they become a bit like rangers in that they don't really begin to lose firepower till 2 guys die. There's just no point in paying more for the second upgrade than the first one.


1. It's a self-propelled AT gun, much like a StuG, just that it dies a lot faster and can't shoot on the move.

3. Needing two assault grens, for that kind of price, to clear out one trench? Uhm, no. And I doubt you'd defeat a trench with two assault gren squads if it had a lieut + bren squad inside :S.

6. Makes stormtroopers a lot more cost effective for ambush use, as intended...

7. No, it's pretty much a stubby, crappy P4. It needs it cost, and popcap, set to the ostwind because of the following reasons :
1. Poor rate of fire without lockdown. It's just too low to even be noticeable.
2. Poorer ability when dealing with tetrarchs/greyhounds due to much reduced ROF and turret rotation speed when compared to Ostwind. Lockdowning is unviable due to getting outranged.
3. Poor range. You're just not gonna use it to kite, and if you lockdown to be able to do something, a tank bumrushes you and kills it. Or an ATG sets up and shoots it to death.
4. Noone's gonna charge a lockdowned P4 IST with infantry, they'll rape it with tanks or ATGs. Ostwind can GTFO from both, if needed.

The P4IST is only better at one thing - it has more HP and armor. It's gun is much worse than the ostwind one, in the standard combat situations.

[Mgallun74]

no BAR increase please, thanks.. they dont really do all that much damage, only reason i buy them is so i can suppress infantry, then run up and grenade them.

[CafeMilani]

A) Mobile support weapons for Brits. Mg, mortar, and pounder able to move for like 1/3 of the american atg.
Emplacements should be an upgrade for the support teams, for better effectiveness. High build time, low time to depack.

B) HMG for PE.

Furthermore :
1) Increase pop for tommies to 6.
2) Increase munition to FOO from 100 - 150/180. Increase time shells fall. Right now they come instantly.
3) Increase bar cost to 85-90 to match the lmg price. Bars are abundant now.
4) Increase Bren upgrade cost for tommies to 100.
4) Change skirts to how they were. Make them purchasable at vet 2 if possible.
5) Reduce effectiveness of piats. The most important thing is, there shouldnt be a unit that can obliterate anything in their path, be it tank or infnatry and be blobbed successfully as piat sappers are now. Increase price nonetheless to 90-100.
6)Reduce price to mp44s for stormies. 1st to 90, second to 100-110.
7) Change damage modifiers of tanks vs emplacements, nebelwerfer etc.

yes - even vanilla tommies are awesome
125 mun and slight time increase
implement 2 kind of bars: bars with supp. fire for 95 mun and without for 70
implement 2 kind of brens, with and without button: button should cost like 110-120 mun (should act as a AT unit)
make them how they were, purchasable at vet1..
1 piats are at least as effective as a shreck slight nerf AND should cost like 100mun
yes, first mp44 for storms is simply not effective first for 80, second for 100, that 180..still very much
change dmg modifier of mortars against emplacements

and think a bit moe carefully about changes like the range increase to 80 of the 17pdr.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

The Marder can shoot on the move.

5) Revert PIAT to pre-0.0.4. It was just about right then, capable of killing, but not always hitting. Price must remain the same if the PIAT was reverted(which it should be), otherwise a 90-100 mun cost would be appropriate with the current effectiveness.

It doesn't 'always hit'.  It can't hit a target that's backing off or traversing at all, since it doesn't have seeking shots.  Bear in mind that you still have the new IHTs and ACs driving around. I've suggesting prices for the new PIAT like 110, and I'd rather have that than the old PIAT.

*Stuart's fine.  That sort of minor tweaking will just get the community farther and farther away from actually being able to examine balance without our own COH-Stats.  If it's too weak adjust the price.

*Riflenades are being vastly underestimated in this thread, and making them cheaper will make Brits more blobbable between the smoke and ignoring cover.

*Marder to 6 will, I hope, never happen without a general pop rebalance of all vehicles.  I would much rather have 10 pop Marders on my US account than m10s.

*I like the stationary vickers.  The power and range are well balanced with the cost and immobility.  

*Despite testimonials of its suckage, the P4 IST does in fact have a bigass damage radius on its shot. It's no StuH, but it can actually hit things. I like it. This is one place I'd rather change the stats than the price, and lower the lockdown/unlock period. (3s?)

*What's wrong with Assault Grenadiers? Awesome firepower on those guys.  Pair them with G43s if you can. I mean, they already pack more bang for the buck than any other assault unit, it's just getting close where they lack.  They are more super-Volks than PzG KCH. Use them accordingly, in combined groups. They've already had a price buff. As for a free nades + increased reserves... pshht. Come on.

*I'm not sure why people are all gung ho on the sapper blob now. It was worse before the patch.  

19) Set 25pdr build time to 30 seconds, 15 is just too low.

Um...why? They can't move, they can't defend themselves, and they have short range for artillery.

[Warlight]

Reduce accuracy by 57mm and Pak88 when shooting at:

Jeeps or Motorcycles.  Espsialy when moving, I always see pak rounds curving through the are and nabbing jeeps off.  

Right now they seem to hit way to much, if ATG's and Paks couldn't just own jeeps and motorcycles they would be a right proper counter to Paks.  They can roll up and gun the crew down before you can say: OH NOES!  That PAK WAS JUST LIKE A PAK TO ME!

Come to think of it, it feels like a right proper counter.  Plus you already need jeeps and cycles for counter sniping, why couldn't their job be anti-ATG/Pak too?

Oh and do something with the 88,  It takes forever to build, and is Immoble.  Now that 17s act like 88s, build faster and have simmiler range, and are mobile.  I think 88s need a little lovin too.

[BigDick]

The Marder can shoot on the move.

marder is no frontline unit
its killed easily on frontline and its aimtime and cone is low being on the frontline

It doesn't 'always hit'.  It can't hit a target that's backing off or traversing at all, since it doesn't have seeking shots.  Bear in mind that you still have the new IHTs and ACs driving around. I've suggesting prices for the new PIAT like 110, and I'd rather have that than the old PIAT.

piats and british playstyle have to much advantages to be in the current state

they can shoot over hedges and buildings, they can do rear armor hits from the front
and the blob reward has to be toned down not to be raised

*Marder to 6 will, I hope, never happen without a general pop rebalance of all vehicles.  I would much rather have 10 pop Marders on my US account than m10s.

eh would you disclaim onto your AT57mm for that? (and actually to all other tanks)
how would your first callin look?

*Despite testimonials of its suckage, the P4 IST does in fact have a bigass damage radius on its shot. It's no StuH, but it can actually hit things. I like it. This is one place I'd rather change the stats than the price, and lower the lockdown/unlock period. (3s?)

the P4 IST actually suck balls with its range (especially for 15 more fuel then a sherman)
the lockdown ability is almost the death sentence since it can be outrange by almost everything
and PE has no fuel for this thing when they want use their halftracks and need their marders as AT guns

[CafeMilani]

Oh and do something with the 88,  It takes forever to build, and is Immoble.  Now that 17s act like 88s, build faster and have simmiler range, and are mobile.  I think 88s need a little lovin too.

maybe needs a build time decrease but the 17pdr definately needs changes, i hope thats clear.

[Mgallun74]

Oh and do something with the 88,  It takes forever to build, and is Immoble.  Now that 17s act like 88s, build faster and have simmiler range, and are mobile.  I think 88s need a little lovin too.

nah, 17pdr is fine, deal with it, like we deal with 88s, tigers and panthers oh my!

maybe needs a build time decrease but the 17pdr definately needs changes, i hope thats clear.

bikes and jeeps need a better decloak range..like +3

[Schultz]

Mysthalin i disagree with you man on : Skirts are not fine at all, theyre absolute crap. I wouldnt recommend to my brother even if they cost 10 mun! And piats lol. If they stay like this pls raise them to 200, not 90-100! They've become the best handheld at in the game, and can even dispose assault troops np!

P.S updated first post just to include observations.

[Malevolence]

I'm against Brit emplacements that can push themselves around as support weaponry. Emplacements are emplacements, and a little bit of a tweak (see: change build time to be a bit more and time to leave a bit less, then shank about 5, maybe 10 range off of them) to how they are now = win.

PIATs make them less effective vs inf (if applicable?)