[Discussion/Poll] Off-Map Arty in EiR:R

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[MistenTH]

Just a thought I had. I don't even know if option 2 is doable in terms of coding. But I'm curious to know what people think.

[EscforrealityTLS]

I hate off-maps altogether they are nothing but "I win buttons" and I completely despise them. The only exception are the planes because it is at least possible to defend against them.

Having no smoke would be a terrible idea as it would simply mean there is absolutely no chance to get the unit out of harms way.

If there is to be Atri I would like to see in on the field so it can be destroyed.

On a side note I've mentioned this before:

If Arti is unlocked using doctrines in EIRR with PP, each drop should cost additional PP at upward scaling cost. (Costing as much as 6pp for a third use.)

When used in game the additional usage should be lost and require repurchasing. The most expensive should be used first. And no more than 3 uses should be available.

[sgMisten]

To clarify:

Option 2 is a barrage similar to an on-map howie/priest/nebel/stuka. It's not a swarm of artillery shots. It behaves almost exactly like an on-map howie or nebel, with no smoke, with the sound effect, and with shots arriving one at a time.

[Smokaz]

I think OFF MAP artillery that is focused around being used intelligently should be cheap in terms of PP, to force retreats. The insta rape abilities should be severely restricted if any at all, and definitely cost a lot of PPs.

Intelligent artillery means - Droptime on ALL flares for artillery type abilities should be instant and then 2-3 seconds to get out of the way or retreat. That way you can drop arty on supressed or pinned troops, enemy sees it and he can choose to risk that important units survive to fight on or he can retreat.

Above is basically the way I got the best out of the old EIR terror firestorm with a slow droptime on the shells. Used against someone with supressed units who didnt retreat, it was devastating. Since most offmaps doesnt instagib tanks - all weapon crews can retreat now - and finally the artillery will still destroy the weapons themselves, like mortars or paks, artilery with devastating effects but a acceptable retreat time between flare and actual shell drop could be implemented.

With the new weapon crew retreat system, EIRR has the possibility to design offmap artillery to be focused on forcing a run or die response. A solution appealing in so many ways as it doesnt unneccessarily insta rape units and will still be able to target clusters of infantry, punish being supressed and blobbing at the same time and still act out the extremely important function of not only killing crews but the weapons themselves too.

The only possible balance issue this creates is the fact that neither PE or brits have viable means of mobile supression, with some retarded exceptions like the wirbelwind and commando mg. Sadly this was a relic design decision to make the OF factions "different"

Offmaps - Flare, slow droptime but deadly results
Onmaps - No warning except sound

Ideally.

[Two]

I never understood why you needed flares for a arty barrage where the howis are miles away, its not like its a air strike and they have to see exactly where to shoot.

[Unkn0wn]

The flares/smoke are for gameplay, not realism.

[Schultz]

If Arti is unlocked using doctrines in EIRR with PP, each drop should cost additional PP at upward scaling cost. (Costing as much as 6pp for a third use.)

When used in game the additional usage should be lost and require repurchasing. The most expensive should be used first. And no more than 3 uses should be available.

I second these. I'd like to extend on having limitted uses of off-map arti uses with alson on a limitted number of games.
Free 4 off-map arti uses per games is retarded and we will do well without it.
Also fix the instant arti. Especially the infantry doctrine off map. There was no escape unless youre lucky and the shots keep missing giving you plenty of time to unpack and move.

[Mysthalin]

less off-maps = less dead support weapon spammers?

Frankly, off-maps are awesome and only trouble you if you blob or spam support weapons to no end. They add a great tactical layer to the game, and I'd love to have even more off-maps than there were in vEiR.

It has already been said dozens of times there will not be any instant-arty in EiRR.

[Tymathee]

I think having no flare but time to target with sound would be great, just like the v1. It'd put a lil more realism in and would scare the pants off every body when they hear the booming sound and wonder where its going.

[Schultz]

Mysthalin i think youre seeing things, like schrek blobs running around. 
Two mgs on the field in a 2v2 isnt support spam. It is basic combined arms. A lot of arguments come from this which is bullshit.

[Mysthalin]

Two MGs is surely not support weapon spam, but when there's an HMG in each house on the map, a pak every 5 metres, as well as 2-3 mortars... I don't know that becomes to look a lot like support weapon spam, even for a 3v3, though you see that kind of thing even in 2v2s.

Wait, so 3 tommies/4 PIATs is a blob, but 4-5 shreks isn't? Especialy comparing the prices? Doubt I'm the one seeing things mate.

[Killer344]

Yes, I think you are lol.... 5 schrecks on the field? that would mean no paks, and some tasty food for shermans at long range/ cromwell + cct/ church crocodile.

[Schultz]

Who the hell runs with 4-5 schrek blobs on the field anymore man and for what ?
People prefer paks because they do the job better, not to mention whats a schrek blob gonna do against british infantry or american ?

[Mysthalin]

Maybe you don't do it, and I don't think many people will any more, as the shrek has been fixed.
But it did happen, a LOT pre-patch. The shrek had it's accuracy set to 0.70 at long range, as a lot of people know, so the shrek was ludicrous - kiting it with tanks was imposible.

Though... even now people like to put up quadshrek stormtrooper callins to go rape any tank they meet. Sure, infantry is nice, but it won't really find them all that often ^^.

[EscforrealityTLS]

But at 600MP 600MU they should rape any tank they meet. It is after all a size able portion of one munitions place on two units.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

There's a reason popcap is part of price, if you justify things being great based on raw cost you end up with the old 4 pop Grenadiers vs 6 pop Rifles.

[EscforrealityTLS]

Was that a reference to my post? If so I remember that, but have no idea how it applies to my previous statement.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

My point was that 600 mp and 600 mun don't exist in a vacuum. Units that are strong for their popcap have a cost premium. 

[spinn72]

The last thing i want is Strafing Run like surprise. 

IMO if there is to be off map artillery, it should give a good delay time, like a Firestorm does now pretty much is the good time.

It all depends on what it costs in the end and how much you get out of it.  Smoke though would be much better in general.

[gamesguy2]

The last thing i want is Strafing Run like surprise. 

IMO if there is to be off map artillery, it should give a good delay time, like a Firestorm does now pretty much is the good time.

It all depends on what it costs in the end and how much you get out of it.  Smoke though would be much better in general.

Beta firestorm is the fastest dropping arty in the game.  It rivals registered arty.