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[gamesguy2]

EIRRMod himself said that the PaK changes might be reverted, depending on public opinion.

Not quite

Depending on how the changes work out.  Public opinion is good to have, but should not (and wont) influence changes of and by themselves.

A small tweak is being introduced in the next few hours that will make the pain less.

Hey Eirrmod is there any chance you can check if the pak first strike bonus lasts for one or three shots?  It should only be one but it feels like its three.

It is three.
Just about everyone's been suggesting a one-shot bonus, though, rather than disallowing cloaked PaK movement.

No, first strike bonus, as in 10x penetration and 1.25x damage.   It should only last for one shot, but it seems like its lasting for three.

The cloak is for three shots, but thats not the first strike bonus.  IMO a pak that decloaks after one shot but can move around cloaked would be fine.

[CommanderHolt]

and: allied tanks are way faster than axis'...i already mentioned that all

It very taxing for me when people learn to expound things without even checking the facts first.

The ONLY tanks of the allies that are Significantly faster then the average axis tank (ie. Panzer IV) are the M10 Wolverine and the Cromwell w/ flank speed.

These stats are all from CoH-Stats so unless the devs were secretly changing the max speed for Allies tanks(lol), this should be it.

Speed/Acceleration

Cromwell w/ Flank speed= 7.5/2.2
Hetzer= 6.2/1.3
M10= 6.18/1.7
Marder III= 6/2.5
Jagdpanther= 5.4/3
Panthers= 5.2/2.5
American Shermans= 5.2/1.6
Pershing= 5/2
Firefly Sherman= 5/1.5
Panzer IV= 5/1.2
StuG/H= 5/1.7
Cromwell= 5/2.2
Tiger= 4/2
King Tiger= 3/1.2

Now obviously, Fixed turreted vehicles like the Marder III and Hetzer doesn't need to use it speed to flank, but it does put lols in who's faster in pure speed.

Overall it could be said that the Panther is the "fastest" tank as it can accelerate to it maximum speed faster then any other Turreted tank.

So please, don't use the argument "OMG ALL ZE ALLIES TANKS ARE FASTERZZZZ!!!!1111" as it definitely not true for the most part.

[BigDick]

AT guns were never that effective given their lack of engines. Hard to move, but inexpensive...

57mms shoot at infantry

• lockdown mode for AT guns to be able to shoot (they can shoot but not move/turn when locked down - when not locked down they can move/turn but are on hold fire)

[gamesguy2]

AT guns were never that effective given their lack of engines. Hard to move, but inexpensive...

57mms shoot at infantry

• lockdown mode for AT guns to be able to shoot (they can shoot but not move/turn when locked down - when not locked down they can move/turn but are on hold fire)

Because pak cant fire unless its cloaked right?

[BigDick]

AT guns were never that effective given their lack of engines. Hard to move, but inexpensive...

57mms shoot at infantry

• lockdown mode for AT guns to be able to shoot (they can shoot but not move/turn when locked down - when not locked down they can move/turn but are on hold fire)

Because pak cant fire unless its cloaked right?

at the moment it can but after implementing that lock down thing it will not be able
like all other at guns are not be able to fire when not "locked down"

ps: and why the much crappier at gun (pak38) in damage and surviveability and much more expensive one should be used without cloak in crap mode?

[gamesguy2]

AT guns were never that effective given their lack of engines. Hard to move, but inexpensive...

57mms shoot at infantry

• lockdown mode for AT guns to be able to shoot (they can shoot but not move/turn when locked down - when not locked down they can move/turn but are on hold fire)

Because pak cant fire unless its cloaked right?

at the moment it can but after implementing that lock down thing it will not be able
like all other at guns are not be able to fire when not "locked down"

ps: and why the much crappier at gun (pak38) in damage and surviveability and much more expensive one should be used without cloak in crap mode?

Pak38 outdamage 57mm, and has the same hp, and it can cloak.

How is it crappier again?

[BigDick]

115 damage (without cloak) vs 150 damage (+ ability to get 125% damage and 500% penetration)
and less heavy arty VS shitloads of heavy arty (offmap+onmap)
400MP 140mun VS 380MP 110mun

so you want to tell me that the AT57mm is more worse than the Pak38 without cloak?

and i do not understand your problem when all AT guns have to be in a lock down mode to be able to fire

seems fair to me and forces to use AT guns more tactical (and not as AT gun "crawl" weapons) helps PE to get not totally raped by infantry supported AT gun crawls

[Akranadas]

DPS != DAMAGE

[BigDick]

DPS != DAMAGE

only dumb noobs let their tanks take 3 or more shots before backing up

[gamesguy2]

115 damage (without cloak) vs 150 damage (+ ability to get 125% damage and 500% penetration)
and less heavy arty VS shitloads of heavy arty (offmap+onmap)
400MP 140mun VS 380MP 110mun

so you want to tell me that the AT57mm is more worse than the Pak38 without cloak?

and i do not understand your problem when all AT guns have to be in a lock down mode to be able to fire

seems fair to me and forces to use AT guns more tactical (and not as AT gun "crawl" weapons) helps PE to get not totally raped by infantry supported AT gun crawls

Pak fires every 3.7 seconds, 57mm fires every 5.3 seconds, pak outdps the 57mm.

Wtf are you talking about?  No AT gun has to be in lockdown mode to fire.

AT guns are not overpowered, so why should they be nerfed?

[gamesguy2]

DPS != DAMAGE

only dumb noobs let their tanks take 3 or more shots before backing up

Fail.  57mm generally only gets off one shot against a tank before it backs up, pak usually gets off two due to its much faster rof.

Therefore pak is better than the 57mm is practically every circumstance.  It does more damage in a sustained shooting match, it does more damage against a tank poking its head out.

[nugnugx]

the pak with fixed cloaked turning is ok now

it does the same roles as it did for me before , kill tanks , i was never "scouting" with it.

[Schultz]

the pak with fixed cloaked turning is ok now

it does the same roles as it did for me before , kill tanks , i was never "scouting" with it.

lol, who the hell did scout with it. another eir myth.

[EIRRMod]

the pak with fixed cloaked turning is ok now

it does the same roles as it did for me before , kill tanks , i was never "scouting" with it.

lol, who the hell did scout with it. another eir myth.

Which means it wont be missed

[CafeMilani]

the pak with fixed cloaked turning is ok now

it does the same roles as it did for me before , kill tanks , i was never "scouting" with it.

lol, who the hell did scout with it. another eir myth.

Which means it wont be missed

which means there is no change needed.

[Malevolence]

Honestly, I think this is a bad change. I don't personally like the way PaKs work now, it's rather obnoxious having to spike your APM to use PaKs with their cloak ability effectively with repositioning.

I still say put the cloak back to how it was and make it reveal after one shot, maybe reduce line of sight if scouting is an issue (which apparently it isn't, and thus made this particular change 100% unwarranted and pointless).

[Baine]

Yeah I used to sometimes scout with it aswell, just a little forward, see enemy, move back.

And once i ninjaed all my way behind a vet 2 calliope on RTC and killed it. Although the crew died (before the patch where the crew could just leave the gun and retreat).


The new PAK is fine, especially since it can turn now. Still getting used to, especially the extra click to move it.

[CafeMilani]

Honestly, I think this is a bad change. I don't personally like the way PaKs work now, it's rather obnoxious having to spike your APM to use PaKs with their cloak ability effectively with repositioning.

I still say put the cloak back to how it was and make it reveal after one shot, maybe reduce line of sight if scouting is an issue (which apparently it isn't, and thus made this particular change 100% unwarranted and pointless).

they should definately not decrease sight of it
what can a pak do without sight?! think about this^^

[Mysthalin]

EiRRMod, to clear this up:

The previous pak could shoot 3 shots from cloak, ONE of them giving the 25 percent more dmg 1000 percent penetration bonus.
Seems your theory about a new pak bug is probably correct.

[Unkn0wn]

Cleaned, stay on topic ffs.