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COH: Europe In Ruins
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Balance & Design
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pak price
Poll
Question:
pak poll
should be able to cloak always
should stay as it is
price decrease
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Topic: pak price (Read 38109 times)
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: pak price
«
Reply #120 on:
May 05, 2009, 10:14:17 pm »
Quote from: Illegal_Carrot on May 05, 2009, 10:05:53 pm
Quote from: gamesguy2 on May 05, 2009, 09:20:10 pm
Quote from: EIRRMod on May 05, 2009, 08:15:51 pm
Quote from: Illegal_Carrot on May 05, 2009, 07:55:13 pm
EIRRMod himself said that the PaK changes might be reverted, depending on public opinion.
Not quite
Depending on how the changes work out. Public opinion is good to have, but should not (and wont) influence changes of and by themselves.
A small tweak is being introduced in the next few hours that will make the pain less.
Hey Eirrmod is there any chance you can check if the pak first strike bonus lasts for one or three shots? It should only be one but it feels like its three.
It is three.
Just about everyone's been suggesting a one-shot bonus, though, rather than disallowing cloaked PaK movement.
No, first strike bonus, as in 10x penetration and 1.25x damage. It should only last for one shot, but it seems like its lasting for three.
The cloak is for three shots, but thats not the first strike bonus. IMO a pak that decloaks after one shot but can move around cloaked would be fine.
Logged
CommanderHolt
EIR Veteran
Posts: 600
Re: pak price
«
Reply #121 on:
May 05, 2009, 10:35:32 pm »
Quote from: aloha622 on May 05, 2009, 01:22:26 pm
and: allied tanks are way faster than axis'...i already mentioned that all
It very taxing for me when people learn to expound things without even checking the facts first.
The ONLY tanks of the allies that are
Significantly
faster then the average axis tank (ie. Panzer IV) are the M10 Wolverine and the Cromwell w/ flank speed.
These stats are all from CoH-Stats so unless the devs were secretly changing the max speed for Allies tanks(lol), this should be it.
Speed/Acceleration
Cromwell w/ Flank speed= 7.5/2.2
Hetzer= 6.2/1.3
M10= 6.18/1.7
Marder III= 6/2.5
Jagdpanther= 5.4/3
Panthers= 5.2/2.5
American Shermans= 5.2/1.6
Pershing= 5/2
Firefly Sherman= 5/1.5
Panzer IV= 5/1.2
StuG/H= 5/1.7
Cromwell= 5/2.2
Tiger= 4/2
King Tiger= 3/1.2
Now obviously, Fixed turreted vehicles like the Marder III and Hetzer doesn't need to use it speed to flank, but it does put lols in who's faster in pure speed.
Overall it could be said that the
Panther
is the "fastest" tank as it can accelerate to it maximum speed faster then any other Turreted tank.
So please, don't use the argument "OMG ALL ZE ALLIES TANKS ARE FASTERZZZZ!!!!1111" as it definitely not true for the most part.
«
Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 10:41:08 pm by CommanderHolt
»
Logged
BigDick
Guest
Re: pak price
«
Reply #122 on:
May 06, 2009, 01:20:29 am »
Quote from: Malevolence on May 05, 2009, 05:23:10 pm
AT guns were never that effective given their lack of engines. Hard to move, but inexpensive...
Quote from: gamesguy2 on May 05, 2009, 07:31:36 pm
57mms shoot at infantry
lockdown mode for AT guns to be able to shoot (they can shoot but not move/turn when locked down - when not locked down they can move/turn but are on hold fire)
«
Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 01:22:39 am by BigDick
»
Logged
gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: pak price
«
Reply #123 on:
May 06, 2009, 01:49:01 am »
Quote from: BigDick on May 06, 2009, 01:20:29 am
Quote from: Malevolence on May 05, 2009, 05:23:10 pm
AT guns were never that effective given their lack of engines. Hard to move, but inexpensive...
Quote from: gamesguy2 on May 05, 2009, 07:31:36 pm
57mms shoot at infantry
lockdown mode for AT guns to be able to shoot (they can shoot but not move/turn when locked down - when not locked down they can move/turn but are on hold fire)
Because pak cant fire unless its cloaked right?
Logged
BigDick
Guest
Re: pak price
«
Reply #124 on:
May 06, 2009, 01:58:45 am »
Quote from: gamesguy2 on May 06, 2009, 01:49:01 am
Quote from: BigDick on May 06, 2009, 01:20:29 am
Quote from: Malevolence on May 05, 2009, 05:23:10 pm
AT guns were never that effective given their lack of engines. Hard to move, but inexpensive...
Quote from: gamesguy2 on May 05, 2009, 07:31:36 pm
57mms shoot at infantry
lockdown mode for AT guns to be able to shoot (they can shoot but not move/turn when locked down - when not locked down they can move/turn but are on hold fire)
Because pak cant fire unless its cloaked right?
at the moment it can but after implementing that lock down thing it will not be able
like all other at guns are not be able to fire when not "locked down"
ps: and why the much crappier at gun (pak38) in damage and surviveability and much more expensive one should be used without cloak in crap mode?
«
Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 02:05:55 am by BigDick
»
Logged
gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: pak price
«
Reply #125 on:
May 06, 2009, 02:10:18 am »
Quote from: BigDick on May 06, 2009, 01:58:45 am
Quote from: gamesguy2 on May 06, 2009, 01:49:01 am
Quote from: BigDick on May 06, 2009, 01:20:29 am
Quote from: Malevolence on May 05, 2009, 05:23:10 pm
AT guns were never that effective given their lack of engines. Hard to move, but inexpensive...
Quote from: gamesguy2 on May 05, 2009, 07:31:36 pm
57mms shoot at infantry
lockdown mode for AT guns to be able to shoot (they can shoot but not move/turn when locked down - when not locked down they can move/turn but are on hold fire)
Because pak cant fire unless its cloaked right?
at the moment it can but after implementing that lock down thing it will not be able
like all other at guns are not be able to fire when not "locked down"
ps: and why the much crappier at gun (pak38) in damage and surviveability and much more expensive one should be used without cloak in crap mode?
Pak38 outdamage 57mm, and has the same hp, and it can cloak.
How is it crappier again?
Logged
BigDick
Guest
Re: pak price
«
Reply #126 on:
May 06, 2009, 02:16:21 am »
115 damage (without cloak) vs 150 damage (+ ability to get 125% damage and 500% penetration)
and less heavy arty VS shitloads of heavy arty (offmap+onmap)
400MP 140mun VS 380MP 110mun
so you want to tell me that the AT57mm is more worse than the Pak38
without
cloak?
and i do not understand your problem when all AT guns have to be in a lock down mode to be able to fire
seems fair to me and forces to use AT guns more tactical (and not as AT gun "crawl" weapons) helps PE to get not totally raped by infantry supported AT gun crawls
Logged
Akranadas
Honoured Member
Posts: 6906
Re: pak price
«
Reply #127 on:
May 06, 2009, 02:17:59 am »
DPS != DAMAGE
Logged
BigDick
Guest
Re: pak price
«
Reply #128 on:
May 06, 2009, 02:19:49 am »
Quote from: Akranadas on May 06, 2009, 02:17:59 am
DPS != DAMAGE
only dumb noobs let their tanks take 3 or more shots before backing up
Logged
gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: pak price
«
Reply #129 on:
May 06, 2009, 02:47:34 am »
Quote from: BigDick on May 06, 2009, 02:16:21 am
115 damage (without cloak) vs 150 damage (+ ability to get 125% damage and 500% penetration)
and less heavy arty VS shitloads of heavy arty (offmap+onmap)
400MP 140mun VS 380MP 110mun
so you want to tell me that the AT57mm is more worse than the Pak38
without
cloak?
and i do not understand your problem when all AT guns have to be in a lock down mode to be able to fire
seems fair to me and forces to use AT guns more tactical (and not as AT gun "crawl" weapons) helps PE to get not totally raped by infantry supported AT gun crawls
Pak fires every 3.7 seconds, 57mm fires every 5.3 seconds, pak outdps the 57mm.
Wtf are you talking about? No AT gun has to be in lockdown mode to fire.
AT guns are not overpowered, so why should they be nerfed?
Logged
gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: pak price
«
Reply #130 on:
May 06, 2009, 02:48:22 am »
Quote from: BigDick on May 06, 2009, 02:19:49 am
Quote from: Akranadas on May 06, 2009, 02:17:59 am
DPS != DAMAGE
only dumb noobs let their tanks take 3 or more shots before backing up
Fail. 57mm generally only gets off one shot against a tank before it backs up, pak usually gets off two due to its much faster rof.
Therefore pak is better than the 57mm is practically every circumstance. It does more damage in a sustained shooting match, it does more damage against a tank poking its head out.
Logged
nugnugx
Donator
Posts: 4051
Re: pak price
«
Reply #131 on:
May 06, 2009, 04:51:05 am »
the pak with fixed cloaked turning is ok now
it does the same roles as it did for me before , kill tanks , i was never "scouting" with it.
Logged
Schultz
EIR Veteran
Posts: 679
Re: pak price
«
Reply #132 on:
May 06, 2009, 05:07:43 am »
Quote from: nugnugx on May 06, 2009, 04:51:05 am
the pak with fixed cloaked turning is ok now
it does the same roles as it did for me before , kill tanks , i was never "scouting" with it.
lol, who the hell did scout with it. another eir myth.
Logged
EIRRMod
Administrator / Lead Developer
Posts: 11009
Re: pak price
«
Reply #133 on:
May 06, 2009, 06:06:21 am »
Quote from: Schultz on May 06, 2009, 05:07:43 am
Quote from: nugnugx on May 06, 2009, 04:51:05 am
the pak with fixed cloaked turning is ok now
it does the same roles as it did for me before , kill tanks , i was never "scouting" with it.
lol, who the hell did scout with it. another eir myth.
Which means it wont be missed
Logged
Quote from: brn4meplz
Shit I'm pretty sure you could offer the guy a cup of coffee and he'd try to kill you with the mug if you forgot sugar.
Quote from: tank130
That's like offering Beer to fuck the fat chick. It will work for a while, but it's not gonna last. Not only that, but there is zero motivation for the Fat chick to loose weight.
Quote from: tank130
Why don't you collect up your love beads and potpourri and find something constructive to do.
CafeMilani
Aloha
Posts: 2994
Re: pak price
«
Reply #134 on:
May 06, 2009, 06:29:52 am »
Quote from: EIRRMod on May 06, 2009, 06:06:21 am
Quote from: Schultz on May 06, 2009, 05:07:43 am
Quote from: nugnugx on May 06, 2009, 04:51:05 am
the pak with fixed cloaked turning is ok now
it does the same roles as it did for me before , kill tanks , i was never "scouting" with it.
lol, who the hell did scout with it. another eir myth.
Which means it wont be missed
which means there is no change needed.
Logged
Malevolence
Donator
Posts: 1871
Re: pak price
«
Reply #135 on:
May 06, 2009, 06:39:10 am »
Honestly, I think this is a bad change. I don't personally like the way PaKs work now, it's rather obnoxious having to spike your APM to use PaKs with their cloak ability effectively with repositioning.
I still say put the cloak back to how it was and make it reveal after one shot, maybe reduce line of sight if scouting is an issue (which apparently it isn't, and thus made this particular change 100% unwarranted and pointless).
Logged
Akranadas' Greatest Hits, Volume 1:
Quote from: Akranadas
Vet has nothing to do with unit preformance.
Quote from: Akranadas
We are serious about enforcing this, and I am sure you all want to be able to have your balance thought considered by the development team with some biased, sensationalist coming into your thread and ruining it.
Baine
Steven Spielberg
Posts: 3713
Re: pak price
«
Reply #136 on:
May 06, 2009, 06:41:07 am »
Yeah I used to sometimes scout with it aswell, just a little forward, see enemy, move back.
And once i ninjaed all my way behind a vet 2 calliope on RTC and killed it. Although the crew died (before the patch where the crew could just leave the gun and retreat).
The new PAK is fine, especially since it can turn now. Still getting used to, especially the extra click to move it.
Logged
CafeMilani
Aloha
Posts: 2994
Re: pak price
«
Reply #137 on:
May 06, 2009, 06:45:49 am »
Quote from: Malevolence on May 06, 2009, 06:39:10 am
Honestly, I think this is a bad change. I don't personally like the way PaKs work now, it's rather obnoxious having to spike your APM to use PaKs with their cloak ability effectively with repositioning.
I still say put the cloak back to how it was and make it reveal after one shot, maybe reduce line of sight if scouting is an issue (which apparently it isn't, and thus made this particular change 100% unwarranted and pointless).
they should definately not decrease sight of it
what can a pak do without sight?! think about this^^
Logged
Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: pak price
«
Reply #138 on:
May 06, 2009, 07:05:48 am »
EiRRMod, to clear this up:
The previous pak could shoot 3 shots from cloak, ONE of them giving the 25 percent more dmg 1000 percent penetration bonus.
Seems your theory about a new pak bug is probably correct.
«
Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 07:25:05 am by Unkn0wn
»
Logged
Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
Re: pak price
«
Reply #139 on:
May 06, 2009, 07:23:59 am »
Cleaned, stay on topic ffs.
Logged
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