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[Smokaz]

fallschirm vet needs to be looked at if they can beat a full health vet 3 rifle squad with 40% health consistently before vet 3, at equal vet the fallschrims should beat rifles because they are more expensive

[Bubz]

if they weren't camo 40% healt fsj vs closerange vet3 rifles should have ripped em apart, maybe just with 1 man standing but rifles should have won that engagement. riflemen are damn useless, only things they're good at is suppressing with bars (80 munitions) and killing unupgraded volks. that's the whole point about the boredom of us.

[AmPM]

If they are in cover, they get ambush bonuses, you are charging so penalties to your accuracy, FJ are using a weapon made to shred things at close range. Why would you charge and not just use SF at long range and close in once they are pinned. Not to mention the FJ also get cover bonuses....so charging + enemy in cover = not hit, vs super high damage close range weapons....

Yea, you made the right choice charging in that situation....

Who was it that said, vet doesn't fix stupid?

[CafeMilani]

smokaz ur wrong, falls are much more expensive.
bubs remember falls have 4 fg42, rifles have 3 bars

did they have any vet?

ofc can falls easily kill rifles charging from mid range into them being in yellow cover.
let me say it this way

dmgoutput: awesome
survivability: crappy

=ambush units

lmao ampm this is epic
vet doesnt fix stupid

[Smokaz]

Consider other aspects here, rifles are not very good at long range engagements and have always been intended to rush up to the axis infantry. They lose at range to almost any axis infantry and the bars is the least effective as an upgrade at max range. Also consider that a vet 3 riflesquad is basically a "special unit", and for a lack of better description a "PP-unit" which I have paid more for than a vet 1/2 fallschirm squad.

Also, demanding that rifles use supression fight in every fight against axis infantry to win shows strong axis bias, imo.

[Smokaz]

Vet 1/2 (the circular triangle thing) FSJ are sitting at 40% health with 4 squad members in a small brush type of yellow cover, not camoed. My vet 3 BAR rifles come around the corner of a house, at full health with vet 3. They charge from medium range and before my eyes the squad MELTS and dissapears with FSJ not losing a single man.

as ive said numerous times already, this was the situation

[CafeMilani]

the solution of all problems: cover! i always try to use green cover (ok its easier to get it with grens or volks[can build it] but when docs are fully in, inf doctrine rifles will be able to build them too.

[Smokaz]

And btw, vet doesnt fix stupid, I completely agree. But keeping constantly updated on all the veterancy/nerf/buff changes is a huge task and a part of the questions this thread has started to ask.

Please AMPM/aloha, attack my opinions and not my person, the same person who has mangled both of you in all games we have played.

See, that wasn't any fun and doesn't get us anywhere. It just disturbs the atmosphere, something I know aloha feels deeply about (just look at the quote in my sig).

[panzerjager1943]

If you didn't know FG42s are fearsome at medium and short range. Why would you charge them? It's like intentionally trying to get yourself killed. And with 4 FG42s, even at 40% squad health, it's no wonder you took heavy casualties. 4 Paratrooper Rifles at point blank range.. I don't see anything wrong with them winning. 40% hp or not, all Squad Members were still alive. Remember, the BARs were moving, losing 50% accuracy, while the FG42s, which excel at closer ranges and are generally great all around, were still; maintaining accuracy.There's a good reason why FG42s are 140 munitions; they're very powerful.
BTW, we haven't changed vet for some time.

Riflemen vet doesn't help them survive much. People expect vet to be ultimate all-around bonus; both offensive and defensive. Riflemen vet is mostly offensive, defensive bonuses for Riflemen are low (for most units they are currently).85 recieved damage at Vet1, 0.9 recieved accuracy at Vet2, and 1.1 health at Vet3. Not all that significant. By offensive I mean killing power, by defensive I mean survivability.

[AmPM]

If I only played with the same 2 people over and over Smokaz it would be pretty fair.

Anyway, it basically comes down to, you messed up, and you men died. Its nothing to do with vet bonuses, and everything to do with you making a mistake.

[Bubz]

I lol'd when I saw that last IHT with fsj in it instapinning and raping everything in less than 20 seconds with its highly overbuffed armor. I am happy because at least killer344 lost his vets xD

[CafeMilani]

still dies to 2 atgun shots :/ -> survivability is still looow.
u should watch a bren squad raping an IHT

[Bubz]

I would rather give it back iht armor (down in 3-4 shots of 57mm), IHT is meant to be killed by infantry, not being a freaking mobile trench mg42 instapin gun. Same AC now with burst bug. With the whole PE army you can easily destroy a us player using houses and hedgerows to keep your vehicles away form 57mm fire. My call in can be raped by 3 acs with overdrive circle strafing the 57mm and focusing on sticky rifles.

And I am not talking about brits.

[BigDick]

-Vet3 Health 1.1, Cover ability*, Damage 1.2,  Received Suppression 0.8 50% Accuracy penalty

I don't see how this is not a strong bonus, it's probably the best vet 3 bonus they ever had in EIR. Maybe it's not applied properly.

corrected for situation

charging a ambush FG42 unit in yellow cover (what was yellow cover 25% less incomming accuracy or 50%?)

do the math

people think that vet3 units become to rambo that can take on anything...but actually most never did the math how much more such a squad can fight and will fight (early retreats)

but anyways it is a nice prestige thing

[CafeMilani]

I would rather give it back iht armor (down in 3-4 shots of 57mm), IHT is meant to be killed by infantry, not being a freaking mobile trench mg42 instapin gun. Same AC now with burst bug. With the whole PE army you can easily destroy a us player using houses and hedgerows to keep your vehicles away form 57mm fire. My call in can be raped by 3 acs with overdrive circle strafing the 57mm and focusing on sticky rifles.

And I am not talking about brits.

its down in 2, max. 3 shot when the atgun hits frontal

[panzerjager1943]

IHT armour = recieve full damage from 57mm (150) and IHT hp = 300.
That's 2 shots and nowhere near 4.

Also as a side note to Aloha, rear armour hits don't deal more damage. They only deal more penetration. It could be 3 hits to the front or rear; it'd be very rare for it to take 3 hits though, as 2 57mm shots deal 300 damage, leaving very little space for a '5% bug.'

[Mysthalin]

Yellow cover = 25 less incoming accuracy 25 less recieved damage.
The FG42s were supposed to utterly rape the rifles - it is good that veterancy does not make units capable of rolling anything in their path. Saying that "vet 3 should pwn vet 2 because it's higher", ignoring the fact you were charging a unit in cover, that is designed for fighting from ambush out of cover, and which's weapon excells at close range, is pretty much invalid. 40 percent HP doesn't change anything either - the rifles deserved to die horribly.

[CafeMilani]

IHT armour = recieve full damage from 57mm (150) and IHT hp = 300.
That's 2 shots and nowhere near 4.

Also as a side note to Aloha, rear armour hits don't deal more damage. They only deal more penetration. It could be 3 hits to the front or rear; it'd be very rare for it to take 3 hits though, as 2 57mm shots deal 300 damage, leaving very little space for a '5% bug.'

i didnt know that it recieves full damg but ok, thats even worse.

[Bubz]

Well 2-3 shots then. Where is the difference? With burst/suppression bug it's a big bullshit, and it's suprising the balancement team hasn't done anything yet. I would suggest at least to remove the puma armor from those things. Not to mention pio flame+iht combo...

[Baine]

Not to mention pio flame+iht combo...

Eh? Bren + eng flamers, same effect. Or even better, get a croc.