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Author Topic: The AI  (Read 16239 times)
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Tymathee Offline
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« on: May 14, 2009, 02:25:15 pm »

Is it just me, or is the unit AI just become overly self-award? I had an m10 last game that I wanted to halt so it wouldn't get in range of a pak but because I'd hit halt and go off screen to micro my other units, it would decide to go with the last order, which was chase after a puma, so it got killed. Also, I asked an at gun to turn, just turn, so what does it do? It backs up, then turns around, which of course i dont get the shot off and I had to retreat it (vet 2 at gun)

this has happened to me so many times where the AI will just take over my unit and od what it wants. I've told my units to go to an area and it encounters an enemy and it fires at the enemy, this is more frustrating with an m10 that stops to fire at a schreck team, which it could've outran if it kept going.

Is there a way to avoid this? Or maybe even fix this, cuz i've lost at least 3 games because the AI did something in a critical moment and ruined me.

Also, anyone know how to keep the freakin m10 from blank firing? If not, devs can we get it cheaper or less pop or something, because it's really really annoying and it just sux when you need to destroy something and it blank fires 2, 3 times in a row.
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LeoPhone Offline
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 02:36:25 pm »

i had a quad flanking a pak, and almost killed the pak. then the quad decided to start shooting at the P4. quad died, didnt kill pak(without P4 pak was dead for sure) and sherman that was attacking which shouldnt have been hit by pak, almost died.
derail?
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brn4meplz Offline
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 02:53:50 pm »

I've not experienced any of those things but my rifle men seems to confuse attack with move closer and attack, makes fighting those LMG grens dangerous...
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Tymathee Offline
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 02:55:11 pm »

it didn't used to do that before it was patched.
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wildsolus Offline
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 02:56:11 pm »

m10 dud is a relic bug
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Tymathee Offline
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 05:18:51 pm »

no kidding. It's the wind-up/wind-down that does it. Every tank does that, even at-guns but tanks that have no wind-up/wind-down will just keep trying to fire until the shell pops out.
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Jazlizard Offline
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 05:34:31 pm »

What can you say sometimes things don't work like you want em to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_6BhQpjoj0


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Jazlizard Offline
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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 05:41:15 pm »

Shrecks have a tendency to do this as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONuhSumK3xo&feature=related

(before someone tries to correct me, yes I know this isn't a shreck)
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Tymathee Offline
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 08:23:17 pm »

Yea, i've noticed that some at weapons are missing short now in weird ways lol.
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Malevolence Offline
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 09:46:20 pm »

Quote
Is it just me, or is the unit AI just become overly self-award? I had an m10 last game that I wanted to halt so it wouldn't get in range of a pak but because I'd hit halt and go off screen to micro my other units, it would decide to go with the last order, which was chase after a puma, so it got killed.

Halting just takes the foot off the gas for the tank, you want to give it a move order to a location so it applies the brakes and doesn't coast to a stop.
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Leafedge Offline
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 10:09:20 pm »

Correct, its actually possible (and not that hard) to get a vehicle to stop on a dime if you know how. Just give it a move order under itself while it is moving. It will instantly defy physics and stop, instead of going through a physically possible process of deceleration and slowing down to a stop.
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Mysthalin Offline
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 11:20:13 pm »

Every single infantry unit takes "attack" as an order to charge the enemy to point blank range, then fire. LMGs, shreks, PIATs - you name it, everything will try to charge, defying logic, into point blank range to die horribly. Relic TOV team - thank you for your bugs, we love you for it.
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Tymathee Offline
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 11:33:35 pm »

Yeah. It would be nice if my m10 would halt at the max of its range and fire at tanks.
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CafeMilani Offline
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2009, 05:41:12 am »

well thats ur problem^^ just press H and u'll be fine.
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Baine Offline
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2009, 05:47:41 am »

Every single infantry unit takes "attack" as an order to charge the enemy to point blank range, then fire. LMGs, shreks, PIATs - you name it, everything will try to charge, defying logic, into point blank range to die horribly. Relic TOV team - thank you for your bugs, we love you for it.

Yeah that's one of the worst things i noticed after the ToV patch. Before the patch the soldiers would get into max range and start shooting, eventually advancing though cover.
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DuckOfDoom Offline
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2009, 05:56:06 am »

Leaf, thanks for the halting tips, I was getting sick of watching stugs slide around the roads.

As far as coh is concerned, Relic made a good game with a god awful interface that is not going to get better any time soon. There are literally dozens of things which SHOULD be available in the game which are not there, simply because relic wants to appeal to ADD starcraft koreans with thousands of APMs. Things like a fucking reverse button on tanks that would prevent 99% percent of tanks pathing retardation, things like a countersnipe button on your sniper so you wouldnt have to frantically spam attack orders in the 1.2 second window of an enemy sniper decloaking and firing in often laggy circumstances (even a ping of 200 would reduce the time by 0.2 seconds). Not to mention, relics idea of target priority is completely retarded and is based on either extremely stupid or insanely brave weapon/vehicle crews. There is literally nothing preventing those dumbasses from adding buttons like Prioritize Infantry and Prioritize Vehicles to the unit overlay, and then just code a simple fucking order for the unit to always targets the last unit targeted in that group unless ordered to target another unit. Unfortunately, Relics problem is a largely dumb user base that is obsessed with "skill" and "micro", rather then simply having fun. Most of the time in coh initial placement and position of units is way more important then frantic micro faggotry. They could expand on the idea of placement and displacement instead of making the user micro more by the virtue of constantly having to fight the god awful AI that decides that a TURN 5 DEGREES LEFT order means that the tank has to turn 355 DEGREES RIGHT.

Its a simple truth that Relic fails to grasp, that more orders does not equate to more fun.
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DuckOfDoom Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 318


« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2009, 05:58:04 am »


Yeah that's one of the worst things i noticed after the ToV patch. Before the patch the soldiers would get into max range and start shooting, eventually advancing though cover.

This is the single reason why goliaths are fucking ridiculous atm.
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Malevolence Offline
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2009, 07:08:44 am »

Quote
Every single infantry unit takes "attack" as an order to charge the enemy to point blank range, then fire. LMGs, shreks, PIATs - you name it, everything will try to charge, defying logic, into point blank range to die horribly. Relic TOV team - thank you for your bugs, we love you for it.

They all try to go to "optimal" range, usually long range followed by an advance as the combat continues.

Some units like the M10 will get to optimal (long) range and then decelerate like with the halt command, making them fly another 200 feet right into the front hull plate of that panther and gets jabbed in the eye by the gun barrel. The key is to just move them manually rather than use the attack order, then tell them to attack once they're already in range so they don't have to move.

Quote
As far as coh is concerned, Relic made a good game with a god awful interface that is not going to get better any time soon.

I like the interface, it's both intuitive and simple as well as useful.

Quote
There are literally dozens of things which SHOULD be available in the game which are not there, simply because relic wants to appeal to ADD starcraft koreans with thousands of APMs. Things like a fucking reverse button on tanks that would prevent 99% percent of tanks pathing retardation,

No, a reverse button on the tank would have you bitching about having to put it in reverse mode before ordering it to go anywhere if you want it to reverse. Simply clicking behind it is a lot easier and more obvious than stupid ass extra buttons on the interface you already claim is too complicated.

Quote
things like a countersnipe button on your sniper so you wouldnt have to frantically spam attack orders in the 1.2 second window of an enemy sniper decloaking and firing in often laggy circumstances (even a ping of 200 would reduce the time by 0.2 seconds).

Option 1) Put sniper on hold fire, wait for enemy sniper, put sniper on free fire. Sniper will priority target the enemy sniper if it's in range.

Option 2) Wait for the enemy sniper to shoot, then right click him.

You're proposing adding yet ANOTHER button to the "god awful interface" which will only make it more complicated.


Quote
Not to mention, relics idea of target priority is completely retarded and is based on either extremely stupid or insanely brave weapon/vehicle crews.

The system encourages better micro, which is the point of a real time tactics game. Focus fire on the units you want to shoot - it's a game with interactivity, not movie fun time sit back and relax to eat popcorn.

Quote
There is literally nothing preventing those dumbasses from adding buttons like Prioritize Infantry and Prioritize Vehicles to the unit overlay,

More annoying buttons to fix a problem only two or three units suffer from.


Quote
and then just code a simple fucking order for the unit to always targets the last unit targeted in that group unless ordered to target another unit.

Your unit is now running after the enemy when they move rather than staying in cover where you put them, congratulations your idea is obnoxious to the player.

Quote
Unfortunately, Relics problem is a largely dumb user base that is obsessed with "skill" and "micro", rather then simply having fun.

A game is fun because it is interactive, not because you put on autopilot and watch the AI fight itself.

Quote
Most of the time in coh initial placement and position of units is way more important then frantic micro faggotry.

"micro faggotry" is how you place your units, and keep them in the right place throughout the engagement. This is not barbie's fun time adventure where you watch barbie ride a pony around, this is a game where you move your units properly to make them be most effective.

Quote
They could expand on the idea of placement and displacement instead of making the user micro more by the virtue of constantly having to fight the god awful AI that decides that a TURN 5 DEGREES LEFT order means that the tank has to turn 355 DEGREES RIGHT.

Somebody sucks at moving units, it seems. I may need to call the waaaahmbulance.
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Flashpoint Gold Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 196


« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2009, 07:56:23 am »

How hard is it to hold right-click and face in the direction you want the unit to face in before you release? They stay where they are, unless there is cover that is extremely close by and then they will go for it. The getting closer thing is only a problem when you have to target specific units, cause then you have to right click the enemy unit and putting yours on auto-pilot.

Simple use of the mouse can remedy your problem.

If you specifically target something and your unit is getting to close, move them back. They will keep shooting the target you told them to as they move back, then if you feel like you need to make sure that they target them no matter what then right click the enemy again.

Viola!

Also, read what Malevolence posted.
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Baine Offline
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2009, 08:05:57 am »

Also: if you rightclick a little too far from the unit you want to turn, it will move to that position even if it's like 0,01 milimeter screensize, and then turn.
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