the heavy tank thread

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[nugnugx]

right now  panther > other axis tanks ,  the heavy tanks tigers/ta/kt aren't cost effective and most of the players baby sit them when they take 2 shots and come with 5 pios to rep them , after 20 mins the heavy tank is there with usualy  5 inf and 1 tank kill.
not to mention the allies hunt them because they know it WILL hurt

right now even persh is in better position as it is cheaper and with comm tank can take on tiger easily

any balance is in order for the future?

[Unkn0wn]

Moved to balance as it seems to be more about pricing than the overall impact of heavy tanks in this game.

[AmPM]

I'm more interested in why the Pershings vet is > than any other tank, and certainly better than a Vet Tiger, TA, or KT.

Hell, a Vet 3 Pershing is like a TA on roids.

WTB vet worth getting for a 6pp tank...

[nugnugx]

I'm more interested in why the Pershings vet is > than any other tank, and certainly better than a Vet Tiger, TA, or KT.

Hell, a Vet 3 Pershing is like a TA on roids.

WTB vet worth getting for a 6pp tank...

yep , the axis were supposed to have superior tanks to allies in vcoh as they have other means to take them out and not in  tank vs tank action.
idk what is the stance of eir on this

[Unkn0wn]

The pershing vs tiger vet is a little off indeed, saying that a vet 3 pershing is better than a TA however is a gross overstatement.
Most of the current 'surprises' in regards to the pershings being powerful stem from the use of a CCT.

[Latios418]

One thing of note is that the Axis players have fell for the ww2 propaganda that the Axis heavy tanks were superior to all and indestructible.

EVERY GAME I have seen Axis heavy tanks (judging as Ti/TA/KT, because by German standards the Panther was a medium tank), which I've seen quite a lot, they are used very recklessly and quickly get down to 20%-40% hp, where the axis spends all their time and pop trying to repair the fucking thing only to waste it again.

Pershings are being used very conservatively from my experience, because Ally users know the pain that Panzershrecks, cloaked Pak40s, and even Panthers can do to Pershings. While it would seem the axis have an advantage with superior ways of harming a Pershing, I think this puts the Pershing at an advantage because it gives their users a cautious mentality that keeps Pershings hale and healthy til the end of the game with many kills.

[AmPM]

Ummm....it has nothing to do with that.

It might have to do with German heavies taking 2x-3x more XP to vet than a Pershing.

Pershings are being used the same as German heavies, to break lines. What they do better is usually have a command tank or 2 to Buff them + epic win vet bonuses.

[CafeMilani]

pershing> every german heavy tank imo because

-cheap
-can buy 2
-200xp for vet3
-vet1, 2 and 3 is absolutely amazing compared to german heavy armor vet

look at TA vet requirements: 800xp for vet3! and what do u get? rediculous 5% less recieved damage (remember, TA and KT have same armor like tiger) and some other lil buffs

and the pershing? 15% less recieved damage, 20% more health, 20 % more damage...i really cant understand the sense

u cant say of this unit is very strong so we give it less good vet (vet needs to be the same for all heavy tanks, tanks, inf, light vehicles, etc (every type of unit needs to have the same vet)

[Mysthalin]

too bad my vet 2 pershing went down to a KT before it got to vet 3, heh ^^.

To be honest, vet should be nice, but not fix stupid. Nerf the pershing's vet, leave the other vets as is.

[CafeMilani]

too bad my vet 2 pershing went down to a KT before it got to vet 3, heh ^^.

To be honest, vet should be nice, but not fix stupid. Nerf the pershing's vet, leave the other vets as is.

do you mean heavy tanks= same vet
tanks= same vet etcetc.?

and u agree that the pershings vet is awesome compared to axis heavy tank vet?

[Tymathee]

Pershing (0.4)
-Vet1 Received Damage 0.85
-Vet2 Penetration 1.1, Accuracy 1.15, Health 1.2,
-Vet3 Received Penetration 0.8, Damage 1.2

Tiger (0.3)
-Vet1 Received Damage 0.9
-Vet2 Penetration 1.1, Accuracy 1.15, Health 1.15
-Vet3 Received Penetration 0.8, Turret Speed 1.1

Tiger Ace (0.1)
-Vet1 Received Damage 0.95
-Vet2 Penetration 1.05, Accuracy 1.05, Health 1.05
-Vet3 Received Penetration 0.95, Health 1.1

King Tiger (0.2)
-Vet1 Received Damage 0.9
-Vet2 Accuracy 1.15, Health 1.1 Speed 1.15
-Vet3 Received Penetration 0.9, Speed 1.15

Tigers and KT's only take a lil longer to vet up and the TA is probably the longest but it's already basically a Vet 3 tiger in the first place. I see nothing wrong with the vet. I have to agree, a lot of axis commanders like to use Tigers like they're big beasts that can just take a beating lol. I remember one game I played, this guy brought out a tiger, with no infantry or tank support to try and break my line, lil did he know i had 3 at guns (1 at and two captured paks) and i took that thing down to 10% health in no time. They had a p4 on the field but they brought that first and then the tiger instead of coordinating. This is what happens usually. Get a KT and put infantry support around it especially storms and it's deadly.

Same thing with a Tiger, get a Tiger, a p4 or two, or a stuh or something like that, maybe a panther and that tiger can be a monster because while the allies are all dealin with everything around the tiger, the Tiger is kiting the allied units and you can't rush the tiger cuz it has a ton of health and you'll get beat up by everything around it.

i have to agree that allied commanders are much more careful with their pershings than axis are with tigers. I've seen both sides use their heavies right and wrong and most of the time, allies with pershings will use it more conservatively, but a fully used pershing is no where near as deadly as a fully used tiger, ace or king tiger, or if you have two of any tiger on the field, it's just pretty much over, you can never have enough at on the field to fight it especially if they've got infantry support to take out your at guns.

The Vet is just fine. It's very close to each other.

Pershing
Rec Dmg -15%
Pene +10%, Acc +15%, Health +20%,
Rec Pene -20%, Dmg +20%

Tiger (0.3)
Rec Dmg -10%
Pene +10%, Acc +15%, Health +20%
Rec Pene -20%, Turret Speed +10%

Tiger Ace (0.1) (basically, take vet 3 tiger and add these)
Rec Dmg -5%
Pene +5%, Acc +5%, Health +5%
Rec Pene +5%, Health +10%

King Tiger (0.2)
Rec Dmg -10%
Acc +15%, health +10%, Spd +15%
Rec Pen -10%, Speed +15%

I see nothing wrong with the vet that each unit gets. They compliment the tank well.

[Staplerfahrer]

Heavy Tanks are pointless for axis.  They are all resource inefficient and population hogs.  The Panthers is the least so and thats why it gets used more.  The Jagdpanther is a joke of a Heavy Tank. At 18 pop and 685 fuel, it has be be thorougly babysat because its pretty much the only armor you're going to field as Tank Hunters if you have it in your company.  685 fuel is two Hetzers and plenty of light vehicles.

[BigDick]

pershing (620mp 610fuel)

-25expVet1 Received Damage 0.85
-100expVet2 Penetration 1.1, Accuracy 1.15, Health 1.2,
-200expVet3 Received Penetration 0.8, Damage 1.2

panther (610MP 500fuel)

-33expVet1 Received Damage 0.9
-133expVet2 Penetration 1.1, Accuracy 1.15, Received Damage 0.9
-267expVet3 Speed 1.2,  Received Penetration .8

tiger ace (900MP 700fuel)

-200expVet1 Received Damage 0.95
-400expVet2 Penetration 1.05, Accuracy 1.05, Health 1.05
-800expVet3 Received Penetration 0.95, Health 1.1

i see no relation in this

why a panther gets more shity vet for evenm more exp and almost same ressource price compared to pershing?

even if you only compare the AT capabilities the pershing is better than the panther

and tiger ace is completely out of discussion....

the pershing is fine but the other tanks need to go down in exp requirements need to get better vet and need to go down ressource wise

[Illegal_Carrot]

There have been threads about this before, and the consensus (even among the Devs) was that the TA's vet is terrible right now.

Really, there's no reason that the TA costs more, required 400% of the XP to get vet, and in some cases gets only 1/4 the benefit of said vet.

The Pershing's vet needs to be nerfed (both in benefit and XP required), the TA's vet needs to be buffed and/or the TA should get a price reduction.
The Persh should still be cheaper, of course, and even get better vet, but to a much less extreme degree than it is now.

[RikiRude]

I'm just curious with the pershings vet does it become anymore effective agaisnt infantry?

I mean what is the complaint here right now? The pershing is too cost effective? or that axis vet requirements on their heavy tanks needs to be brought down (which by the numbers they should). The pershing is too good with a CCT?

So lets make this comparision.

Pershing - 620 MP, 610 F, 17 pop
Cromwell Command tank - 220 MP, 115 F, 3 pop
= 840MP, 725 F, 20 pop

Panther - 610 MP, 500 F, 16 pop
Tiger - 860 MP, 635 F, 17 pop
Tiger Ace - 900 MP, 700 F, 18 pop
King Tiger - 920 MP, 680 F, 19 pop
Jagdpanther - 895 MP, 685 F, 18 pop

So I think that is a more accurate idea of what is being compared here. So although axis vet def needs to be brought down, when comparing a pershing with other tanks, keep in mind that the pershing most likely has a CCT with it. So if you think about it, if you really want the pershing to be this beast, you have to go a certain reinforcement.

I wonder why the devs put the xp so high on some of the axis ones though.

[SaintPauli]

Some of the veterancy sucks but it is Repair speed + pricing that’s killing the axis heavy tanks. Repair speed makes hit and run tactics useless. Suicidal units like the king is still viable but then again you just can’t sacrifice a 5pp King Tiger each game.

Tiger Ace is 25pp to unlock. 6pp to buy. 4PP for v2 and 5PP for v3…

[Illegal_Carrot]

Including CCTs just puts the arguments even more heavily in favor of Axis heavy tanks: CCTs greatly improve the sight of each vehicle, improves weapon range, and improves rate of fire by one-third.
Coupled with better Vet, something like a TA can't compare, despite a higher price.

[RikiRude]

Including CCTs just puts the arguments even more heavily in favor of Axis heavy tanks: CCTs greatly improve the sight of each vehicle, improves weapon range, and improves rate of fire by one-third.
Coupled with better Vet, something like a TA can't compare, despite a higher price.

That's my point. the TA SHOULDN'T be beating out a CCT+Pershing combo because you are spending 20 pop cap and more fuel (not too much, only 25) and less MP, you also need to micro both those units too. It def isn't completely balanced.

[BigDick]

I'm just curious with the pershings vet does it become anymore effective agaisnt infantry?

I mean what is the complaint here right now? The pershing is too cost effective? or that axis vet requirements on their heavy tanks needs to be brought down (which by the numbers they should). The pershing is too good with a CCT?

So lets make this comparision.

Pershing - 620 MP, 610 F, 17 pop
Cromwell Command tank - 220 MP, 115 F, 3 pop
= 840MP, 725 F, 20 pop

a command tank makes a pershing much much much much more effective than a tiger ace
and that is not the thing we need to compare

my pershing performs without a command tank very good

it is only 110 fuel more expensive than my panther but beats it without to big problems
other than my panther it performs very well against infantry and support weapons

it requires less exp to get vet than my panther and its vet is even better

when i compare the tiger,kingtiger and tigerace too it is even more imbalanced
8 times more exp required for vet1 on a tiger ace for much worse vet on this way overpriced and overrated tank

a tiger ace is a tiger with slightly more HP that is faster and a little bit more splash
thats it

[Malevolence]

a tiger ace is a tiger with slightly more HP that is faster and a little bit more splash
thats it

50% more hp and as fast as a panther with better turret rotation.