stop lmg spaming pls

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[CafeMilani]

bigdick and aloha, isnt it one same adolescent ?

huh>?

[Sharpshooter824]

Ok, first of all on the BARs.

We charge into LMG42 grens in light cover and get our own Rifles into light cover, (BECAUSE THERE IS NO HEAVY COVER AROUND). The BAR rifles click suppressive fire and start firing upon the grens quickly losing squad members while they are suppressing them. By the time the rifle squad has successfully suppressed them the rifle squad is in no condition to fight, THE grens have no problem sitting still and cutting rifles down while slowly being suppressed. Now yes, if you have flamers to come clean the grens up if you successfully suppressed them completely with your BARs before going down to 1-2 squad members then you successfully won that engagement, losing 1 rifle BAR squad for their gren squad. My point is a gren squad with 2 LMG42s is going to beat a rifle squad with BARs any day of the week unless of course your rifles have heavy cover, which will not always be available. (sorry for my jibberish)

Second point, Tanks killing axis infantry, oops forgot about that 1 ninjapak hiding behind all of them waiting to kill any allied tanks that may come around!

Forgot one more thing, Allies really can't outnumber axis infantry with the whole pop cap thing in EiR:R Yes I know grens cost 8 pop (At least I think they still do) 

[Scyn]

That's no different though than a 57 behind allied infantry while ACs, Pumas, Ostwinds come rolling up to finish off the rifles.

[Mgallun74]

That's no different though than a 57 behind allied infantry while ACs, Pumas, Ostwinds come rolling up to finish off the rifles.

except the 57mm is probably within view, and the axis player can plan accordingly... while the allied player who blindly drives sherm up to finish the dudes gets owned..          hmmmmmmmm

[Scyn]

That's just the risk you take.

[Sharpshooter824]

All im saying is allied armor cannot be used to kill axis infantry with paks on the field making allies have to move in with their infantry to first kill axis infantry then the pak to allow their armor to get through..

[Baine]

That's no different though than a 57 behind allied infantry while ACs, Pumas, Ostwinds come rolling up to finish off the rifles.

except the 57mm is probably within view, and the axis player can plan accordingly... while the allied player who blindly drives sherm up to finish the dudes gets owned..          hmmmmmmmm

Eh, when the first shot is fired you know where it is. And by the time the 57 is in range, the same thing has happened.

[Mgallun74]

That's no different though than a 57 behind allied infantry while ACs, Pumas, Ostwinds come rolling up to finish off the rifles.

except the 57mm is probably within view, and the axis player can plan accordingly... while the allied player who blindly drives sherm up to finish the dudes gets owned..          hmmmmmmmm

Eh, when the first shot is fired you know where it is. And by the time the 57 is in range, the same thing has happened.

not even close to the same.. sorry..

[Mysthalin]

However, a 57 will always tell you it's there by shooting the infantry, so your pumas, p4s etc. are a bit safer in this case.
The pak will not only sit quiet while it seems infantry(zomg infantry :O), but it'll even have the courtesy to not go all "I'm right here, look at me!" and will sit invisible too, so you won't know if it's there in the first place. The axis player will know exactly where the 57 is without even rolling up a vehicle to check it out.
Pak fires a lot faster, so if you're shot once, you'll get shot twice. Excluding the ability to fight on a road, ofc, but infantry vs infantry fights on roads are rather rare, last time I've checked.

[Baine]

However, a 57 will always tell you it's there by shooting the infantry, so your pumas, p4s etc. are a bit safer in this case.
The pak will not only sit quiet while it seems infantry(zomg infantry :O), but it'll even have the courtesy to not go all "I'm right here, look at me!" and will sit invisible too, so you won't know if it's there in the first place. The axis player will know exactly where the 57 is without even rolling up a vehicle to check it out.
Pak fires a lot faster, so if you're shot once, you'll get shot twice. Excluding the ability to fight on a road, ofc, but infantry vs infantry fights on roads are rather rare, last time I've checked.

You can scan the area with your cursor and look for green cover where there shouldnt be any :O

[Mysthalin]

Yes, that is a very good thing to do while fighting an enemy unit with an inferior unit of your own, trying to pull out a victory out of it, and also watchign the enemy unit if it's suppressed yet and if I should send the sherman in...
Seriously, you can't go much more "pull out of the ass" than that -.-
And yes, I know it's a joke .
But if it's not... god help us all are the axis fanboys off their rockers.

[Latios418]

My point is a gren squad with 2 LMG42s is going to beat a rifle squad with BARs any day of the week unless of course your rifles have heavy cover, which will not always be available. (sorry for my jibberish)

A gren squad should beat a rifle squad under equal conditions with BARs if it has 2 LMG42s, because it costs 1.9x as many more munitions of focused anti-infantry.

Forgot one more thing, Allies really can't outnumber axis infantry with the whole pop cap thing in EiR:R Yes I know grens cost 8 pop (At least I think they still do)

Grens take up 5 pop, same as Riflemen.

[Mysthalin]

Thing is... a single LMG42 grenadier squad will beat a rifle squad with BARs as well :S. I found just throwing waves of assault wielding volks pwns rifles with BARs horribly, as well.

The 8 pop grenadiers was clearly sarcasm latios .
He's reffering to the axis fanboys constantly saying "there's more allied units on the field all the time, so they're supposed to be crap", then spurting out that it's just the ammount of men that's larger, not the ammount of actual units, but still holding their argument that there's more allied units, ergo they should suck.

[CafeMilani]

bars>lamg because of supp fire.

[Mysthalin]

....
You want me to put down a table that shows the LMG short range suppresion is just 25 percent lesser than the 2 BARs with suppression fire, with the grenadier recovering faster from suppresion?
because, I can do that.

[CafeMilani]

hm i only suppress units with 2 double lmg grens, really

[Mysthalin]

you're doing it wrong, then.

Average close range suppresion table it is, then

I have to take back what I said, however, the BAR suposedly suppreses more each shot at all ranges than the LMG42 even without suppresive fired. Let the table reveal what it is like in reality :


\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\          2xBAR/w SF         LMG42
Burst duration                          1                   1.5
ROF                                       14                  15
Shots fired in burst                   14                22.5(~23)
Suppresion per shot                 0.03              0.0075
Suppresion in burst                  0.42                0.17
Cooldown                               0.79                1.95

The BAR outsuppresses the LMG42 rather soundly if using suppresive fire(would be only 0.105 suppresion caused in the burst if the BARs had not had suppresive fire - it is definately not a 10x modifier, because if it were, the grenadiers would be pinned in 10 shots(less than a second)).

The LMG would be able to "suppress back" the BAR rifles with the help of the squad's k98 fire in a single burst, but the second burst of BAR fire and garands would pin the grenadier squad before it could fire the second burst off with the LMG(unless of course the LMG kills a rifleman and gets burst bug, which is the case in the current setting, but it'll be fixed soon enough so I'm not going to use that as a full out argument), and would continue doing nothing for the next  12.2 seconds due to the fact suppresion fire lasts 15 seconds and makes the squad basicaly unable to do damage.

So, even though a BAR(not even 2 BARs, a BAR)>LMG at suppresing with SF(no duh?), the LMG>BAR at suppresion on normal conditions.

[Sharpshooter824]

Ahhh sorry, what axis unit takes up 8 pop cap? (Squad that is) At least in VCoH it is like that heh but really I'd take multiple gren squads over rifle squads and rifles lose advantage of outnumbering in EiR because of pop cap  

And also aloha, BAR suppression fire is an ability that can be used every few minutes (can't remember exact time) LMG42 fire automatically suppresses without a recharge time so technically if you are engaging the enemy frequently BAR suppression is not near LMG42 suppression

[CafeMilani]

they doesnt suppress, i happens like in every 5th game 1 time for me

[gamesguy2]

they doesnt suppress, i happens like in every 5th game 1 time for me

You don't know wtf you're talking about, or you're lying through your teeth as usual.

A dual LMG squad at short range has twice the suppression of a quad.

A single quad at short range will suppress a squad of grens in like 5 seconds flat.  Two quads might as well be insta-suppress, dual LMG grens suppress extremely well.