Axis flamethrower supremacy.

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[DuckOfDoom]

Seriously, its getting annoying. You have an identical weapon on both sides, but yet somehow the axis flamethrower is massively superior to the allied counterpart. I have seen countless times 2 squads of engineers fail to kill a garrisoned mg, where the pioneers have the luxury of charging a bren squads head on and winning that fight. I dont know what is causing it, I am assuming that the allied infantry is more susceptible to flamers because thats how it is in vCoh. Well, there is absolutely no reason for that to be the case in Eirr! Wehrmacht has plenty of infantry counters as it is and it sure as hell doesn't need another infantry instant kill weapon.

[Mysthalin]

Flamethrowers = based on criticals, that kick in at certain percentages of HP.
1 shot from an SMG puts down more HP percentaly on a rifleman than it does on a grenadier. Thusly, the axis flamethrower gets higher chances of criting stuff out.
Thusly, axis flamethrower > allied flamethrower.
Thusly, brens need a nerf anyways.

[Guderian]

I don't care, I don't effing care. They yust pwns 10 times more, No matter what the math says.

[Groundfire]

well, yeah, the math does point to axis flame throwers being more useful against allied infantry.

The further you go on the armor chain (infantry armor --> Heroic) the more vunerable that unit is to flame crits.

So the entire british army (soldier armor), and all American Elite infantry (Elite and forms of it) get the beat down from flamers while Axis just have to worry bout their Pgrens and KCH, since grens no longer get Elite armor for vet2.

sweet irony. The counter to Rangers is a 120mp 50 muntion worker unit with shovels, a scuba tank and some tubing. lol

[Baine]

well, yeah, the math does point to axis flame throwers being more useful against allied infantry.

The further you go on the armor chain (infantry armor --> Heroic) the more vunerable that unit is to flame crits.

So the entire british army (soldier armor), and all American Elite infantry (Elite and forms of it) get the beat down from flamers while Axis just have to worry bout their Pgrens and KCH, since grens no longer get Elite armor for vet2.

sweet irony. The counter to Rangers is a 120mp 50 muntion worker unit with shovels, a scuba tank and some tubing. lol

Yeah that unit can sustain so much dmg. Oh wait no it can't.

You guys ever heard about focus fire? I see fireballs whenever flamers attack infantry. Oh and tactics like Mysthalin used with 8 flamers also have their weakness. Hmg set up further behind and voila.

[Guderian]

well, yeah, the math does point to axis flame throwers being more useful against allied infantry.

The further you go on the armor chain (infantry armor --> Heroic) the more vunerable that unit is to flame crits.

So the entire british army (soldier armor), and all American Elite infantry (Elite and forms of it) get the beat down from flamers while Axis just have to worry bout their Pgrens and KCH, since grens no longer get Elite armor for vet2.

sweet irony. The counter to Rangers is a 120mp 50 muntion worker unit with shovels, a scuba tank and some tubing. lol

Yeah that unit can sustain so much dmg. Oh wait no it can't.

You guys ever heard about focus fire? I see fireballs whenever flamers attack infantry. Oh and tactics like Mysthalin used with 8 flamers also have their weakness. Hmg set up further behind and voila.

Oy! Shit ain't so situational all the time!

[panzerjager1943]

Use the US Flamethrower on Panzer Elite Infantry. Then tell me which is more devastating; the one facing 4-man squads each with 55 hp, or the one facing 5-man squads each with 65 hp.

Wehr vs. US, the Wehrmacht one is more effective, because Grenadiers are 4-man squads with 80 hp and Riflemen are 6-man squads with 55 hp, so Riflemen damage output will drop very quickly as they take their casualties faster. It is also notable that Grenadiers deal more damage output and so will kill that Engineer squad very fast.

[DuckOfDoom]

Use the US Flamethrower on Panzer Elite Infantry. Then tell me which is more devastating; the one facing 4-man squads each with 55 hp, or the one facing 5-man squads each with 65 hp.

Wehr vs. US, the Wehrmacht one is more effective, because Grenadiers are 4-man squads with 80 hp and Riflemen are 6-man squads with 55 hp, so Riflemen damage output will drop very quickly as they take their casualties faster. It is also notable that Grenadiers deal more damage output and so will kill that Engineer squad very fast.

That is true, but what I am saying is that this shit shouldn't happen to anyone. There should be a reasonable chance to avoid or kill a flamethrower unit without having to call on units with 3 times their price (like an hmg). Flamethrowers, both on the axis and the allied side are too cost effective and too kill effective for a game like Eirr. I just used the axis flamethrower as an example because it tends to hurt the allies more then vica versa.

[CafeMilani]

brens also do a nice job at killing inf and a looot more things

[Unkn0wn]

There should be a reasonable chance to avoid or kill a flamethrower unit without having to call on units with 3 times their price (like an hmg)

In what universe does the flamethrower cost 3x less than an HMG? You'll pay less munitions & more manpower for that HMG but overall its a fair trade-off. Not to mention that allies generally have an easier time 'gimping' flamethrower squads as it only takes a sniper/recon squad to take out one pioneer.

[Blitzen]

The pio might hurt riflemen, but try using one on a bren squad...  pios die in a few seconds if you aim at em.

[Baine]

That is true, but what I am saying is that this shit shouldn't happen to anyone. There should be a reasonable chance to avoid or kill a flamethrower unit without having to call on units with 3 times their price (like an hmg). Flamethrowers, both on the axis and the allied side are too cost effective and too kill effective for a game like Eirr. I just used the axis flamethrower as an example because it tends to hurt the allies more then vica versa.

I don't know whats wrong with you people when i see things like that. I mean there are counters, but the units don't cost all the same for a reason. Sometimes you have to counter with a costlier unit. Sometimes you can beat units with less costly units.

[Bubz]

I'm missing something, why are we talking about brens? Do they cast flames?

[Guderian]

This thread is derailing.



Thread is closed.

[Leafedge]

Before it does, since it very noticeably still isn't, I'd like to point out first that the flamethrower is an AoE weapon, unlike most small arms. This makes it drastically more effective against the larger squad sizes the allies have. Plus engies get suppressed by much of the stuff they try to flame before they can even get in range, pios are more fragile, but at least they can charge easier.

[SaintPauli]

LOL! Learn to play noobs! Get flamers on rifles instead like I do! 

[31stPzGren]

it only takes a sniper/recon squad to take out one pioneer.

For the allies, having a sniper is integral to winning right now from the way the game is going out. It allows the allies to deal effectively with support weapon spam, grenadier spam and flame throwers.

Bar rifles are also rather effective, so I don't see a reason why its so difficult to deal with axis flame throwers.

[Guderian]

How can it possible be integral?

If no snipers are on like 80 procent of the times (according to games i have seen)

[panzerman]

who have u been watching,
alot of people use snipers to scout and not actually shoot much.

the good players have a sniper hiding behind say a mortar or riflemen to entice this uber flamers of death and pop 1 of the pio as u get in LOS. I just hate that cause then usually the rifleman pick off the other. the moment you loose 1 of the pios u find urself either pulling them off or getting them killed pritty bad.

[Latios418]

@saint

obvious photoshop (/etc.) is obvious! nobody is holding a flamer and the  flamer icon is overlapping the unit icon.