Churchhill MK IV Needs a buff?

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[RikiRude]

ooh! sherman gun! im all about that =D

but that still doesn't change that the standard churchill is a pos

also everyone knows aloha  doesn't actually play in a physical sense, he just reads stats and stuff and imagines units fighting each other purely 1v1 in his head.

[Sharpshooter824]

cromwells perform quite well? What they perfom well as tank wreckages to ninja storms, paks, P4s, panthers, shrecks ETC. aloha you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

[Mysthalin]

Actualy, the cromwell's only adversary is the stug - that tank it almost never penetrates, but panther and P4 frontal armor is defnately not a problem at all. I don't know if there's something screwy with the penetration modifiers, but I personaly find less use for a cromwell vs infantry than I find them at anti-tank duty.

Looking at CoH stats, it tells me cromwells should penetrate panthers not more than once every 5 shots at point blank, but they definately penetrate more often.
Vs stugs, it seems about right - 1 in 3 shots will penetrate. 1 in 2 will penetrate vs a P4.
It also says that the sherman splash is worse than the cromwell's splash, with the sherman being slightly more accurate at actualy shooting infantry.

So, I dunno, maybe the stats are screwy, I can't use corsix to check it out due to my version being screwy .

[Sharpshooter824]

So the sherman gun on churchhill is the upgunned version or regular?

[Mysthalin]

75mm, so it's the regular one.

[Malevolence]

It is, however, many of the RE doctrine abilities buff the Churchill MKIV specifically. We'll have to see how it plays out.

Where were you when Mal and I were pushing for the Churchill boost =)

Yar, what he said. RSE buffs Churchill in several ways (more accurate while not moving, 75mm upgun from a Sherman, captain-like aura bonuses, increased speed and accuracy on the move by 25%, et c.) which should make them more appealing.

Oh great a cromwell gun! so pretty much a slower moving cromwell with a bigger target to hit and something that still can't stand up to a P4 -.-

A P4 beats a churchill, barely, in most fights. With a 75mm Sherman gun the Churchill will win almost 100% of the fights against a P4 and with some health to spare as well. In addition, it has superior armor and thus hasn't the need for expensive skirts, and the Sherman main gun is excellent against infantry even on the move (unlike the Cromwell gun).

cromwells perform quite well? What they perfom well as tank wreckages to ninja storms, paks, P4s, panthers, shrecks ETC. aloha you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

The Cromwell is a very situational tank. It has absolutely awful accuracy while on the move, but it is also incredibly fast - you have to choose which one you want to use for any given situation, as firing while moving is not going to get the job done. I've had a Cromwell at nearly point blank from about half health just annihilate two PE schrek squads and a fallschirmjager squad and it limped off the field at like 10% health. That's because I stopped it rather than kept it moving. Alternatively you can always just run away if you can't outfight whatever is attacking you.

[Sharpshooter824]

er.. the regular sherman gun rarely penetrates a P4 in my experiences, am I wrong about this?

[Scaevola]

Vanilla churchills are just terrible. They don't really fit any role, being terrible at assaulting positions (speed) killing infantry (slow reloading weak gun) or tanks (lol).

[CafeMilani]

ooh! sherman gun! im all about that =D

but that still doesn't change that the standard churchill is a pos

also everyone knows aloha  doesn't actually play in a physical sense, he just reads stats and stuff and imagines units fighting each other purely 1v1 in his head.

i play every faction quite intensely atm

[CafeMilani]

cromwells perform quite well? What they perfom well as tank wreckages to ninja storms, paks, P4s, panthers, shrecks ETC. aloha you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

i just watched a broadcast where u tried to flank with your church (without support) and u failed hard..
axis were not good

[Bubz]

Ok aloha post a replay where you use the churchill with pro skillz and own stuff instead of saying you do that and that.

[Malevolence]

er.. the regular sherman gun rarely penetrates a P4 in my experiences, am I wrong about this?

A vanilla Sherman loses to a vanilla P4 almost always, but the P4 is usually very hurt.

A vanilla Churchill does about the same.

So taking the best aspect of the Churchill (armor/HP) and the best aspect of the Sherman (comparatively, the gun) and putting them together probably results in a win pretty easily.

[Sharpshooter824]

Do you realize how much I screw around aloha? Thats all I had left and what was I supposed to do camp it? Sometimes I just randomly do stupid things with it? I can get a churchhill with 50 XP in a couple rounds if I baby it enough and play the right opponents lol
I simply suicided it because I had nothing better to do with it and no XP gained with it.

[Draken]

Actualy, the cromwell's only adversary is the stug - that tank it almost never penetrates, but panther and P4 frontal armor is defnately not a problem at all. I don't know if there's something screwy with the penetration modifiers, but I personaly find less use for a cromwell vs infantry than I find them at anti-tank duty.

Looking at CoH stats, it tells me cromwells should penetrate panthers not more than once every 5 shots at point blank, but they definately penetrate more often.
Vs stugs, it seems about right - 1 in 3 shots will penetrate. 1 in 2 will penetrate vs a P4.
It also says that the sherman splash is worse than the cromwell's splash, with the sherman being slightly more accurate at actualy shooting infantry.

So, I dunno, maybe the stats are screwy, I can't use corsix to check it out due to my version being screwy .

Just stop using rabbit foot, I killed many croms with my panther, and the stats are not wrong I won many times with 10% hp panther against full hp croms, it's just matter fate :p.

[brn4meplz]

If it had a higher priority then infantry in regards to HMG's then it would atleast soak fire from the troops. but because no one would ever target a tank over infantry in reality thats kinda useless. The churchill is a decent tank. but your probably better off buying the later variants instead. Like the Churchill croc! ummm nom nom nom halftrack dudes!

well guys you know SOME thing is bad when you got a tester telling us to skip over a T1 -_-

Well yeah Riki, I'm a tester, not an idiot. If something isn't effective I won't use it. The only things that can sway that opinion are hilarious fun, or testing purposes. I used the Churchill it wasn't fun or effective. I moved along. Besides in the grand scheme of things whats the use unlock all 3 Churchill Variants if you only plan on using 1 or 2 of them? You gotta plan this stuff ahead of time

[CafeMilani]

If it had a higher priority then infantry in regards to HMG's then it would atleast soak fire from the troops. but because no one would ever target a tank over infantry in reality thats kinda useless. The churchill is a decent tank. but your probably better off buying the later variants instead. Like the Churchill croc! ummm nom nom nom halftrack dudes!

well guys you know SOME thing is bad when you got a tester telling us to skip over a T1 -_-

Well yeah Riki, I'm a tester, not an idiot. If something isn't effective I won't use it.

so u wanna make everything effective in every aspect?? nice one.
every unit is effective against something else

[Sharpshooter824]

And the churchhill isn't effective against anything..period

[Latios418]

I like using them to crush things. Hedges and infantry alike.

[aloha623]

oh yeah i forgot..heavy crush
and if u purchase the mine crap thing its veryvery good at crushing.

[Sharpshooter824]

another 50 munitions to be able to crush units a couple more feet away from them? The only time you could do that anyway is if the infy don't have shrecks, otherwise you are suiciding