Churchhill MK IV Needs a buff?

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[Sharpshooter824]

In my honest honest opinion, I really think for a doctrine specific unit that must be unlocked the churchhill is very weak. It is slow, making it not able to escape engagements well, second it does practically nothing to units in buildings (Like HMGs) Making it a very poor support tank, Third the churchhill's gun has terrible penetration and cannot hit light vehicles that are moving very well at all..about the only thing going for the churchhill is its armor but with the Pak's crazy penetration bonuses its negated too.. overall I really love it, its just a weak tank for 12 pop cap that can't do much more then absorb some hits. This is not a complaint or whine thread, this is a a discussion if people think the Churchhill needs a buff.

[AmPM]

It is, however, many of the RE doctrine abilities buff the Churchill MKIV specifically. We'll have to see how it plays out.

Where were you when Mal and I were pushing for the Churchill boost =)

[Sharpshooter824]

Obviously not here  

But anyways, yes the 75mm upgun which is a T2 unlock will make it more useful..but will it be able to stand up to a P4 with skirts?
Anyway other then that hull down which really isn't a buff is the only thing I can think of that buffs churchhills

Alright here is something to think about..just thought about it heh..PE and brits both have infantry support tanks.. obviously the church is doctrinal but the IST isn't..the P4 IST is x3 more effective at supporting infantry, and yes im sure the P4IST is probably a bit more costly but really I would rather pay more for an effective churchhill that does its job supporting infy then get something that soaks up a couple shots from a pak and can't escape, yes I left out the fact that churchhills have slightly better penetration but with that crazy doctrine ability that upguns the P4 IST and makes it pretty much invincible how does the churchhill compare? 

[Mysthalin]

the 75 mm will be a cromwell gun.

[Sharpshooter824]

Oh great a cromwell gun! so pretty much a slower moving cromwell with a bigger target to hit and something that still can't stand up to a P4 -.-

[Mysthalin]

You underestimate the Cromwell gun, it's got insane penetration.
People say it's better against infantry... I heartily disagree, I use it against panthers than against shreks any day.

[Sharpshooter824]

Eh cromwells can't even stand up to a P4 so a cromwell gun on a churchhill is gonna be able to stand up against a panther? I don't really think it'll work 

[brn4meplz]

If it had a higher priority then infantry in regards to HMG's then it would atleast soak fire from the troops. but because no one would ever target a tank over infantry in reality thats kinda useless. The churchill is a decent tank. but your probably better off buying the later variants instead. Like the Churchill croc! ummm nom nom nom halftrack dudes!

[Killer344]

You underestimate the Cromwell gun, it's got insane penetration.
People say it's better against infantry... I heartily disagree, I use it against panthers than against shreks any day.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOL LLL

Unless something is seriously fucked up, crom´s gun can´t penetrate stug armor, never, and sometimes p4 armor.

[Sharpshooter824]

Yes was just about to say the cromwell can't penetrate much at all, most of my shots are bounces when I attempt to engage a P4 let alone a stug

[CafeMilani]

i think i played u a few times and uh...you have to improve your micro with every unit. when this happened, you have another point of view, also of your churchills.

you mustnt use churchills to kill tanks, its and infantry support, i repeat, support tank. use it to break through enemy lines together with your uber bren tommies, the tank shock ability is great. it has a very strong frontal armor which makes it easy to keep it alive while pudhing forwards.
so: the MK4 is a nice tank imo, but your supposed to not use it without support. it needs suppoirt and it supports.

[Sharpshooter824]

Do you even read these threads you post in aloha? I DO SUPPORT IT, IT does not to a good job of breaking through enemy lines because its incredibly slow, a pak could be facing the wrong direction for a minute with the churchhill in LoS and could turn around and kill it.
Anyways aloha, saying a unit is perfectly fine my micro just needs working on is complete trash, its incredibly slow, it does a poor job of supporting infantry etc

And also just checked price list and the P4 IST is 305 MP 205 Fuel
and the churchhill is 420 MP and 260 fuel for a much less effective unit at what its supposed to do, and churchhill is doctrinal..

[CafeMilani]

Do you even read these threads you post in aloha? I DO SUPPORT IT, IT does not to a good job of breaking through enemy lines because its incredibly slow, a pak could be facing the wrong direction for a minute with the churchhill in LoS and could turn around and kill it.
Anyways aloha, saying a unit is perfectly fine my micro just needs working on is complete trash, its incredibly slow, it does a poor job of supporting infantry etc

then its just your micro, you do something wrong.i guess

[Sharpshooter824]

.....Why do I even bother with talking to aloha
And aloha, the churchhill doesn't have tank shock currently.
Meaning you obviously haven't used it before meaning, you are obviously biased on the OPPOSITE side so, really don't post in a thread about a unit you know absolutely nothing about 

[Bubz]

Churchill is a big fail tank, just don't use it without flamethrower.

[CafeMilani]

u gotta try it out when implemented. maybe your opinion will change

[Sharpshooter824]

Aloha, i've played enough vCoH to know how tank shock works, THE only reason it was good in vCoH is because you got a heavily armored tank in 3 command points, it obviously doesn't matter in EIR:R because that benefit is gone.

[RikiRude]

If it had a higher priority then infantry in regards to HMG's then it would atleast soak fire from the troops. but because no one would ever target a tank over infantry in reality thats kinda useless. The churchill is a decent tank. but your probably better off buying the later variants instead. Like the Churchill croc! ummm nom nom nom halftrack dudes!

well guys you know SOME thing is bad when you got a tester telling us to skip over a T1 -_-

I need to get my churchill in a game with desert rats to see if it fairs any better. but generally the only thing the church really has going for it is its heavy crush to take down hedges and surprise enemies. i do believe last war we were arguing that the church should get the the cromwell gun standard. The most I've ever killed with it were a radio scout car and a marder that I busted through a hedge to get to. but honestly the churchill sucks, and everyone knows it.

[Unkn0wn]

The 75mm is going to be the sherman's, not the cromwell's.
I.e churchills will become much better against infantry and perform satisfactory against lower level tanks.

[CafeMilani]

The 75mm is going to be the sherman's, not the cromwell's.
I.e churchills will become much better against infantry and perform satisfactory against lower level tanks.

like 1(or more) kill per shot? because cromwells perform quite well imo
ppl just use overdrive and trying to hit while at fullspeed xD
i hope u see this unknownz