[WH] New nebel

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[Killer344]

Try not charging them frontally next time...duh. Skill won that game not nebs, you were playing vs keeps and snoop.

[Jazzhead]

Try not charging them frontally next time...duh. Skill won that game not nebs, you were playing vs keeps and snoop.

I didn't really see a shining showcase of skill in that game. I mean ofc keeps and snoop are really good, but in this game it was more about their coy synergy (which i guess is skillfull in a different manner).

Those nebls though seem a bit ridiculous. Sure they took up keeps' entire force, but they pretty much counter everything. The only way to beat them i guess would be arty spam (multiple arty pieces on the field- a bit harder in 2v2 though). Everything else gets shreaded pretty hard.

As for balancing them, i think nerfing their speed is a good start. Those things move waaay too fast for being gigantic rocket launchers. Maybe introduce a packup/deploy time so it's harder to dodge enemies, and/or make them move a lot slower. They're so fast they should be moved to blitz doc -.-

This was a really entertaining game though, but i would be interested in seeing one where someone counters this strat, or nebls in general.

[BigDick]

would be a bit crap for a direct firing T3 unlock unit to be slower than a kingtiger

[Jazzhead]

would be a bit crap for a direct firing T3 unlock unit to be slower than a kingtiger

It is a support weapon though, in the DEFENSIVE doctrine. It shouldn't be able to sprint. It just needs to be toned down a bit.

[gamesguy2]

Try not charging them frontally next time...duh. Skill won that game not nebs, you were playing vs keeps and snoop.

I didn't really see a shining showcase of skill in that game. I mean ofc keeps and snoop are really good, but in this game it was more about their coy synergy (which i guess is skillfull in a different manner).

Those nebls though seem a bit ridiculous. Sure they took up keeps' entire force, but they pretty much counter everything. The only way to beat them i guess would be arty spam (multiple arty pieces on the field- a bit harder in 2v2 though). Everything else gets shreaded pretty hard.

As for balancing them, i think nerfing their speed is a good start. Those things move waaay too fast for being gigantic rocket launchers. Maybe introduce a packup/deploy time so it's harder to dodge enemies, and/or make them move a lot slower. They're so fast they should be moved to blitz doc -.-

This was a really entertaining game though, but i would be interested in seeing one where someone counters this strat, or nebls in general.

What would you have done if instead of nebels keeps had spammed his entire pop with paks and HMGs?

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=15818.0

And this is how you counter it, Burn ran like 6 of them and they sucked.

[Blitzableiter]

hey allies players first thinking then whining
i cant believe it 

always when axis get a unit where an allied player has to play with tactic and cant attack with blobs to counter it they are flaming the unit is OP

and hey - these units are a T3 , so first play a few game against these nebels, stop spamming and try it to counter and then if you have found no counter beginn to post it


greets from the guy who has enough from reading post from allies players like "oooh the axis got an unit which has to makes me playing with tactic so it must be OP"

[sheffer]

2Blitzableiter
Hey, watch a replay and then teach us, mr. Flame. Be constructive.

[Jazzhead]

hey allies players first thinking then whining
i cant believe it 

always when axis get a unit where an allied player has to play with tactic and cant attack with blobs to counter it they are flaming the unit is OP

and hey - these units are a T3 , so first play a few game against these nebels, stop spamming and try it to counter and then if you have found no counter beginn to post it


greets from the guy who has enough from reading post from allies players like "oooh the axis got an unit which has to makes me playing with tactic so it must be OP"

Uhhh ok i have 60+ US games and 120+ WM games i think that the nebl needs to be tweeked, not nerfed into oblivion. I love axis, but that doesn't mean i think they should get an unbalanced unit.

[Tymathee]

exactly. I never said they should be nerfed, i just said tweaked because when a support unit is spammed like that, it usually means it can tackle everything. a problem in the rgd's is that it gets 100% accuracy vs everything and it really shouldn't. I think at least against infantry it should have an accuracy penalty because infantry can't dodge an arced shell that's going that fast like a lv and tank can.

[gamesguy2]

exactly. I never said they should be nerfed, i just said tweaked because when a support unit is spammed like that, it usually means it can tackle everything. a problem in the rgd's is that it gets 100% accuracy vs everything and it really shouldn't. I think at least against infantry it should have an accuracy penalty because infantry can't dodge an arced shell that's going that fast like a lv and tank can.

Its shell moves slower than a stuh shell, and I've seen infantry dodge stuh shells plenty of times.  You just can't do it by standing still in front of it.

[deadbolt]

1 in 5 shells is bound to hit the target, it's the only reason my core is half decent.

[DarkSoldierX]

Fireup + new nebel = dead nebel . I still think packup and setup time should be increased by 50%

[gamesguy2]

1 in 5 shells is bound to hit the target, it's the only reason my core is half decent.

One strafing run later...

You guys are reading way too much into a support weapon blob. If deadbolt had ran 3 paks, 3 HMGs  and a mortar what would you have done to counter?  

[Masacree]

Lol this is such bullshit.

I'm sorry, but I'm usually axis biased.

but wow...

[deadbolt]

does fatherland defense buff new nebel gamesguy?

[Groundfire]

Here's a high lvl replay showing how broken nebs are when they are spammed.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=15870.msg271240;topicseen#new

Cannonball and I are no slouches. Those things are mean!

You should not be able to call on 8 of these and have it be an acceptable starting call in.

The gun is abnormally hard to kill, it needs a nerf in HP and also in availibility. These things should be seen as frequently as paks, which should be 2-4 at the most.

250mm neb = 320 HP
150mm neb = 250 HP
Pak36 = 300 HP

It should be 300 HP at the most.

The crew should not have green cover either. (they do afaik)

Availability should be upped from 6 to 8 or 9 so when you buy 4-5 nebs you start to oversupply.

Vet needs to be redone, the requirements need to be upped by 5-10 at each level.

Target tables need to be relooked at too.

It is a multi tasking unit, it can take on both AI and AT roles, and when fielded in numbers, they become much too cost effective.
No other support weapon has this kind of capability except to an extent the bofors, and that is immobile.

150 damage is way too much, especially when the rockets penetrate most tanks all the time.

Shermans and cromwells get penetrated at all ranges 100% of the time, while pershings get penetrated 70% at all ranges.

Most dedicated AT is not even this good. Reduce penetration vs. armor or decrease the projectile speed to compensate.

Final note, If you flank these things they should die; and at the moment, they do not. They have enough gun health and crew health to turn and return fire, or track a tank. This leads to problems with their speed. The vet speed buffs should be gone.

They are too fast.

Smart players will dodge indirect fire. I dedicated my bombing runs to killing the 250mm nebs the last game I played and got maybe 2 because they move so fast.

Some combination of these nerfs must be given to the 250mm cause at the moment, in numbers it is broken. Its so good that it allows a support weapon to become a front line unit.

The cost is simply too high to counter them effectively.

[SnoOp]

there were only 5 on tbh xD

[Groundfire]

NO THERE WASNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SnoOp]

Yes 5 in his first.

[deadbolt]

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rocket+man&docid=158750410147&mid=129DEECCEF1A05F97D2A129DEECCEF1A05F97D2A&FORM=LKVR12#

they call me the rocket man.