EIRR's Biggest Issue

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[Spartan_Marine88]

At the moment EIRR is mainly using stats copy pasted from a game that while looks similiar and using the same engine has become vastly different in the past few years.

First let me specify, COH is a tier based game that means balance must follow a very specific type of style, where early units are often generic and bland but cheap enough to build. Each tier things generally get a little more powerful and diverse. EIRR no longer uses this type of game play and is more like a game of chess played in real time where all pieces can and should be presumed will be available on field at any time.

Unfortunately this never really was looked at or even carefully thought out, with so much emphasis on keeping the units the 'same' in an environment that has completely been changed. Over time some of this has been rectified by various changes in units (like giving stuarts dodge) but it has never been addressed properly.

While this will most likely not have to hit the main field (i think it should personally) thorough testing and possible balancing of all units needs to be done to ensure that they are effective in whatever role felt they are needed to play. This needs to be done first and foremost without and doctrines and buffs as that often throws off the feel of a unit (especially in a game that's already made a little confusing due to randomizing)

After this is done only can doctrines be done properly and with full balance as the games core can be optimized for EIRR. I honestly can't say it enough EIRR is no longer COH.

[Hicks58]

Tbf, I think they keep things the same as CoH where possible to make it more accessible to new players.

The problem with this is that they've added and changed so much that the new guys aren't really gonna care if M10's still have the same range, damage and penetration... They'll be a bit more hooked up with Brits having support teams or PE PzGrens being always 4 man and essentially lower offense Grenadiers.

The devs need to rid themselves of the notion that change is bad, when they've been doing it in other ways for years.

[pqumsieh]

The other day, I had a chat with a friend of mine. This guy is the king of systems and mechanics. He is the guy they "parachute" in when a design totally fails. Anyhow, he was telling me how stupid people can be. They try to design a game or system but have no idea of the final product. His exact words were this: "its like building all of the pieces of an engine and just throwing them into a room hoping it will magically come together".

When an engineer builds an engine, he carefully considers all factors in its design (or at least tries ). He knows how the final product will look, feel, and operate.

I love this guy, he has been a mentor of mine for a while now; I have the utmost respect for him. He said the hardest thing to do is try and fix something that someone else created. The best systems are made by those who have developed it from the ground up. Its near impossible for someone to come halfway through and be able to make it operational.

We are working on a pre-existing system. You are right Spartan, there are significant differences from COH and EIR but at the end of the day they are built on the same system. Fixing EIR requires us to fully understand how that system works and what the final picture is. I do not feel many people have this capacity; that's what makes my friend so brilliant. Speaking for the Balance Team, we are well aware of this issue and are taking steps to work with it. However, I hope you can appreciate that rebuilding a system is completely out of scope.

As for your suggestion, I think you are bang on. Ideally, it would make most sense to balance without the interference of doctrines. It is something I will bring up with EIRRMOD.

PQ

[Tymathee]

im impressed by the OP and the response of PQ, so very awesome.

[3rdCondor]

good luck

[EIRRMod]

Both PQ and Spartan raise interesting points.

We have indeed kept our units similar in stats to vCOH due to accessibility to newer players, however, at what point does this become a liability to EIR's gameplay and is it worth the accessibility trade-off.

[Tymathee]

Looks like they've got the attention of the big dawg.

Could there be a change coming

[EIRRMod]

Looks like they've got the attention of the big dawg.

Could there be a change coming

Im always here, but its nice to have a balance lead with time, motivation and most importantly (to me) communication lines between the community and myself

[Tymathee]

Im always here, but its nice to have a balance lead with time, motivation and most importantly (to me) communication lines between the community and myself

Nice to know and I agree. To me communication is #1, which is the ability not just to talk but to listen and PQ seems to have that, I'm excited to see where this might go.