The current state of Sticky Bombs

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[Walkin]

I haven't seen anyone take Sticky Bombs in forever, and now, even though US lacks any form of infantry-based AT, people are still refusing to take Stickies. Players avoid Sticky Bombs because they are absurdly expensive, but the only reason they remain so expensive is because of their high chance of immobilizing enemy vehicles.

To encourage players to use them again, and bring them in line to what's appropriate for EiR's currently gameplay environment, I would suggest the following:

-increase their throwing range by 5, but remove the vet 2 +10 distance increase
-remove their abilities to deal engine crits to enemy vehicles
-reduce their cost to ~45Mu

What does everyone else think?

[Tachibana]

increase their throwing range by 5, but remove the vet 2 +10 distance increase

This is probably worth discussing. Would like to know how others feel about this.

Removing sticky engine damage leads to a overlapping of function with the zook. It is also a base mechanic that has always been there. Mainly as a function of crippling medium and heavy tanks. Stickies still function in the current meta, but no one is going to run them in copious amounts, no one ever really has. The complaint of a lack of hhat with US is not due to being unable to deal with p4's/stugs/panthers but rather due to the difficulty that US has when dealing with LV's such as the Hotch/Puma/Armoured Car/IHT's, which are things the sticky would not be able to effectively counter anyway.

Since removing the engine damage isn't the best idea(imo), a price reduction really is not there either.

[Walkin]

Removing sticky engine damage leads to a overlapping of function with the zook. It is also a base mechanic that has always been there. Mainly as a function of crippling medium and heavy tanks. Stickies still function in the current meta, but no one is going to run them in copious amounts, no one ever really has. The complaint of a lack of hhat with US is not due to being unable to deal with p4's/stugs/panthers but rather due to the difficulty that US has when dealing with LV's such as the Hotch/Puma/Armoured Car/IHT's, which are things the sticky would not be able to effectively counter anyway.

Overlap with the Zook isn't a deal-breaker, as Zooks are currently doctrinal and Stickies are not. Even still, Fausts and Schreks currently overlap in a similar manner, and there's no issue there. Difference is, people actually take Fausts since they're reasonably priced, and despite the overlap, people often take both Fausts and Schreks in their company. Having multiple forms of anti-armor isn't something to be afraid of; it's gameplay variety, and as a rule, anything that provides  players with more choice, instead of less, is a good thing. The only way I see to get Stickies down to a reasonable price is to remove their crit chances, because otherwise cheap, immobilizing Stickies would likely get spammed everywhere. Maybe give Stickies a temporary slow, similar to that of the Volks Vehicle Mine or the M10 Hawking mine. But a guaranteed, permanent, game-spanning engine crit is not and has never been fun. The Sticky's engine crit works in vCoH because of the ability to constantly repair, the speed at which repairs occur, and the ability to purchase more units on the fly. Abilities that cause engine crits (Sticky Bombs, Treadbreaker before it was nerfed, Fausts when they could cause crits, etc.) have never really worked, "base mechanic" or not, and feel really, really out of place in EiR.

And so what if they are of limited effectiveness against light vehicles? They're a cheap, spammable AT bomb than can be thrown through hedges and buildings. They're not meant to snipe vehicles from long range, they're supposed to scare vehicles into staying at max range, give Riflemen some kind of anti-armor capability, and give the US some kind of AT ability for urban areas, where ATGs and vehicles have a hard time navigating (while Fausts, Schreks, and PIATs fill this role for the other three factions, Stickies are the only non-doctrinal AT for US that fills this role). That's exactly what they should be, but noone takes them because they are too expensive and too unreliable, hence my suggestions of making them cheaper and extending their range.

Since removing the engine damage isn't the best idea(imo), a price reduction really is not there either.

That's the problem: noone takes Stickies because they are too expensive, but they have to be that expensive because of their ability to crit engines. So remove the crit chances, lower the prices, and everyone wins. Sticky Bombs just currently do not work or fit in to EiR, and sitting around refusing to do anything about it because "that's the way it's always been" accomplishes absolutely nothing of value IMO.

[aeroblade56]

i'll pay extra for a sticky  with a engine damage, than a shiticky with no engine damage and cheaper

[Walkin]

i'll pay extra for a sticky  with a engine damage, than a shiticky with no engine damage and cheaper

You say that, but how many Sticky Bombs do you actually have in your company right now? I've been playing a lot since the wipe, and have yet to see a single Sticky so far. I've seen plenty of Fausts, but no Stickies. Riflemen are simply too vulnerable to be trusted with 60Mu Sticky Bombs, and they're just too difficult to use.

I'd rather have a cheaper AT weapon that actually gets used than a more effective, but also more expensive weapon that isn't worth taking.

Besides, as I said:

Maybe give Stickies a temporary slow, similar to that of the Volks Vehicle Mine or the M10 Hawking mine.

[aeroblade56]

not really. a sticky is worth its weight in gold. i only carry at max 4. not because they are ineffective but because they are so effective.

the sticky is a mental game.

 since bren has lost its button
and AT rifles are only meant for LVS

it gives a unique environment for the sticky to shine.

People dont use it because.
TDS and ap round atgs

im sure volskinator has a few and tachi has a few.

[XIIcorps]

You say that, but how many Sticky Bombs do you actually have in your company right now? I've been playing a lot since the wipe, and have yet to see a single Sticky so far. I've seen plenty of Fausts, but no Stickies. Riflemen are simply too vulnerable to be trusted with 60Mu Sticky Bombs, and they're just too difficult to use.

I'd rather have a cheaper AT weapon that actually gets used than a more effective, but also more expensive weapon that isn't worth taking.

Besides, as I said:

my skirted drug coy has bounced around 10 of the 15 stickies they've had thrown at them, stickies are fine as they are, they are a standoff deterrent and work wonderfully so.

When you start throwing in range buffs and Insta effects is when they get OP SPAMMED.
 If anything stickies should cost more, no other weapon has the ability to engine crit a vehicle at 100%

[Walkin]

not really. a sticky is worth its weight in gold. i only carry at max 4. not because they are ineffective but because they are so effective.

Running around trying to Sticky a tank seems like a fool's errand when you could just plant mines and spend the extra Munitions elsewhere. For the same Munitions price as those 4 Sticky Bombs you could buy 14(!) mines. I'd take those mines over the Stickies any day. All those mines will probably net you a whole lot more Damaged Engine crits, too.

[XIIcorps]

Running around trying to Sticky a tank seems like a fool's errand when you could just plant mines and spend the extra Munitions elsewhere. For the same Munitions price as those 4 Sticky Bombs you could buy 14(!) mines. I'd take those mines over the Stickies any day. All those mines will probably net you a whole lot more Damaged Engine crits, too.

not really dickhead, you have to try and guess whether a riflesquad has a sticky or not, mines on the other hand can be negated by a 1 pop 80mp 10mu unit sticking writhing 10m of said vehicle.

Stickies can be used offensively mines cannot

[Hicks58]

You don't use stickies offensively, that's some derp talk from XIIcorps, but he's right in that they aren't useless.

Refer to my Ostwind post tbh, Stickies fall under the same category - A deterrent.

Nobody's gonna wanna throw a high value armour asset at you in a rush if they think they'll get engine damage from it.

No Rifles present and just ATG's? Rush those 2 PzIV's in and skull fuck all 3 of those ATG's, why the hell not?

A rifle squad's hanging about? Fuck it, gonna lose a ton of health AND get engine damaged. There wont be an escape due to risk of crippled mobility and your FU investment has a high probability of going down the toilet.

I will say though that the +5 range and removal of +10 range at vet 2 has merit.

Also, as for Fausts? The only real time they get used is when they are spammed to shit in Volkssturm companies, which besides a few token MP40 squads, is about all you see Volks squads in these days. Even then, you CANNOT ram them down an opponent's throat, as you'll just get kited for days. Still have to use them defensively as it's the nature of the weapon, and they work as a similar deterrent role as Stickies - Except instead of engine damage risk, you've got major damage risk on relatively fragile Allied units (In comparison to the armour/HP of a lot of Axis armour assets)

[NightRain]

Not a good idea.

Sticky literally becomes a panzerfaust that can phase through walls, do we want that? No, do we want difference? Yes.

This makes riflemen Defencive volksgrenadiers with access to Panzerfaust and grenades, so no. State is if you get stickied it is the worst luck there is.