Unit Customization

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[Ununoctium]

Allies and axis all have their own quirks but recently with some changes some problems have arisen.
The particular promblem I'm referring to is Americans being uncustomizable. Also lack of infantry AT. I am looking at non-doctrine units because doctrine units should not be uncounterable or else that would make all agmes predecided and playing pointless.

It's always been that axis can customize better than allies. In vCoH rifles are soft counter to everything, in EiR soft counters don't work well. Grens can be made AT/AI. Rifles.. not so much.

Mp44, mp40 give closerange combat, kars, lmg longrange.
Garandes and bars are neither.

All allied tanks are med range AT and AI. Tank balnce is pretty even with both sides having a variety. one thing is that the wermahct can ahve both stugs and geshutzwagons which is longrange AT and medrange.

With people saying wermacht should get fausts because allies have stickeys then why does wermacht get shrecks and rifles not get anything? Right now AT is tipped very heavily in the axis favour.

Please feel free to argue anypoint I made. some may be stupid due to rage.

[Jinker]

I just played a game recently in which the allied player effectively shut down any axis armor with only infantry. Rifles, RR AB, and only 1 AT gun did this. My opinion is that the allied AT gun is vastly superior to the pak, both in penetration and range. Sure the pak has cloak, which has its uses. Maybe you need to try to structure your company differently?

[Ununoctium]

I just played a game recently in which the allied player effectively shut down any axis armor with only infantry. Rifles, RR AB, and only 1 AT gun did this. My opinion is that the allied AT gun is vastly superior to the pak, both in penetration and range. Sure the pak has cloak, which has its uses. Maybe you need to try to structure your company differently?

First of all your saying Tanks were stopped by AT, that happens sometimes.

Second point, what if he didn't have the RR's. I'm discussing without doctrine units.

[Atlanton]

I just played a game recently in which the allied player effectively shut down any axis armor with only infantry. Rifles, RR AB, and only 1 AT gun did this. My opinion is that the allied AT gun is vastly superior to the pak, both in penetration and range. Sure the pak has cloak, which has its uses. Maybe you need to try to structure your company differently?

First of all your saying Tanks were stopped by AT, that happens sometimes.

Second point, what if he didn't have the RR's. I'm discussing without doctrine units.

It is difficult to discuss game balance without taking the doctrines into account.

For example, RR Airborne can fully complement an anti-infantry rifle-spam and Thompson Rangers can help defend the flank of a single AT gun.

Basically, unless the Axis has a gimmick start, a properly handled AT gun with swarms of riflemen should be able to take out Axis armor.

[Jinker]

Brits have bren and piat blobs with Lts.

[Mysthalin]

I would also agree we need to take into account doctrinal units as well as non-doctrinal units.

AB can get quite an OK AT upgrade, yet really poor anti-infantry costumsation, save for grenades(satchels are dodgeable by anyone who's more than 5 years old).
Stormtroopers can get both shreks and MP44s, as well as a selection of grenades.

Rangers - the obligation to buy retardedly poor anti-tank(bazookas) in conjunction with the choise of buying rather extreme anti infantry.

No costumisability in doctrinal infantry as well .

His point was not that the riflemen need a buff, but that he would like more costumisability(In the way the grenadiers can get both LMGs and shreks).

Brits have bren and piat blobs with Lts.

I did not know they were both purchaseable on one unit :O.

The particular promblem I'm referring to is Americans being uncustomizable

Please read this 10 times before posting again.

[brn4meplz]

IF your rifles really need AT you could always take Infantry company with bazooka unlock. Grens can't have both an LMG and a Schrek currently, it's 1 or the other but the possibility exits to get either or. The BAR for rifle squads is actually a very good weapon, most people don't realize that though because they pop suppression fire which cuts the damage down to almost nothing. Manpacked AT isn't all that cost effective when you actually look at it. so your not missing much. an ATG properly micro'd will work magical orgasmic wonders for you, if your really worried keep a Rifle squad w/ sticky beside it to stop circle strafing. Or if it such a massive problem get a reinforcements package with tommy squads and buy brens. In a game with progression and persistency you've gotta look at everything and the long run. you can;t exclude doctrines or doctrine units.

[Mysthalin]

And clearly, the bazooka is as useful as a panzershrek, and it is completely fair that it is doctrinal whereas the panzershrek is not .

The BAR is indeed a good weapon, but it's effectiveness is not cut short for the reason you gave, but because of the fact riflemen die like flies and don't get to use the weapon to full effectiveness - at least that is my opinion. Seeing as it is not the topic of this thread, I would offer us to leave it at that.

Yet again - we're being forced to one single idea : 57 mm's with the occasional sticky bomb so the 57 doesn't get circlestrafed. Which is the point - there is no costumisability, just one, straightforward tactic.

[Tymathee]

well the bazooka is a lot cheaper and as someone who uses heavy weapons, banging back light vehicles and being able to pop tanks in the ass with zooks on my rifles is very useful.

also, bars have a higher dps at short range than most guns BUT like you said they're on a weaker platform so it's hard to show (which is w hy we use suppression fire)

but yea, the allies are pretty straight forward, which is why its easier for axis players to win because you know what you're gonna get when you play against an allied player (then again, its pretty simple vs axis now too since they all wanna use fausts now you can see it coming a mile away, spam volk sand kch and use fausts to take out tanks yay)

[Fresz1]

I just playd with salan, rifle spam... My Volks with MP40 did nothing to stop them same as flamers, 2x bazooka and x2 bar = unstopable...

[Guderian]

zooks are godlike at the sides or behind.

[Bubz]

I just playd with salan, rifle spam... My Volks with MP40 did nothing to stop them same as flamers, 2x bazooka and x2 bar = unstopable...

z.z
Dude really what are you talking about? You pretend that every unit you have would wtfpwn everything just because you like it?

[Mgallun74]

I just playd with salan, rifle spam... My Volks with MP40 did nothing to stop them same as flamers, 2x bazooka and x2 bar = unstopable...

2x bazooka?  Rifleman only get 1...

Rangers get 2

[Blitzen]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.  Give allies more units.  Make bars their own units, and limit them to like 5/6.  Then made a rifle squad with a zook its own unit too.  I unno, I just think the allies need more infantry diversity.  werh have volks, grens with lmg/grens with shreck, KCH.  Each one is good at its own thing.  Allies have... rifles, which in theory can do everything, and elite, that can do at/ai.  I think allies just need more specific units.  A rifle squad with two zooks... ect, I do like that being implitemted. 
Build on my idea guys, I'm to tired to do any thinking right now.

[salan]

I just playd with salan, rifle spam... My Volks with MP40 did nothing to stop them same as flamers, 2x bazooka and x2 bar = unstopable...

uh frez i didn't have bars on my men... and only 1 bazooka per squad.

[Demon767]

i played americans infantry doctrine.. i could ripped my eyes out how hard it is to kill axis armor. wow its extremely hard. or i extremely suck as allies (whihc has to be the case since my armor dies all the time)

[Sharpshooter824]

Both sides can be hard to get used too after playing one side too long, each requires its own playstyle to take advantage of the full capability of your faction..

EDIT: But to be honest I think allies may be easier to start with but hardest to master..

[Glaze]

Eh Blitzen, if we're talking about adding units at all here, I think more simple additions like veteran sergeants for rifleman or an officer unit would be best.

[RikiRude]

I just want my vanilla rangers back, those were awesome. I like choosing whether I want plain ranger, thompson rangers, or zooka rangers.

The problem with current rangers is how fast your fire power drops. Each member in a thompson ranger squad is holding a special weapon. If you drop a zook, not only are you a man down, but if you pick it up you have one less thompson shooting too.

[LeTon]

i played americans infantry doctrine.. i could ripped my eyes out how hard it is to kill axis armor. wow its extremely hard. or i extremely suck as allies (whihc has to be the case since my armor dies all the time)

Well if you were trying to use rangers...zooks for the most part suck against heavy armor. 60% Accuracy at medium range (a little more against a panther) plus a 50% chance to penetrate even a Panzer IV's frontal armor....15% chance if it's a Panther. You'd have to get 4-5 full salvos off using one squad behind a panther to kill it...

Those %'ages go down if said armor has skirts...