The Tiger – An endangered species…

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[Hicks58]

T3 HEAT rounds. Beneficial when fighting infantry, versus Armor you don't see much difference without additional damage brought by vet 3.

It's worth noting that HEAT rounds will allow the Tiger to 2 shot Greyhounds, destroy Shermans in 4 rounds rather than 5, Pershings in 7 rounds rather than 8, Churchill Crocs in 6 rounds rather than 7...

In a nutshell, it shaves a round off most targets to kill them. Not only that, it increases penetration from 70% to 80% against the Pershing which is the only armour it has problems getting through.

It gives this, whilst providing zero drawbacks.

Therefore, saying that HEAT rounds is good for AI only is a little bit silly.

Basically, the Tiger gets a lot of varied buffs spread across the board whilst the Pershing gets specific and focused buffs.

[Tymathee]

Basically, the Tiger gets a lot of varied buffs spread across the board whilst the Pershing gets specific and focused buffs.

sounds like most allied buffs. Heat Round Panther is epic tho.
I do want to see what a panther with lightning war is like, 5.2x1.25 = 6.5 speed

[tankmaster23]

 

 The 2 threds 1 about Storm trooper 2 shrek and this 1 about under powered Tiger could be fixed just take away 2 shrek storms and make the Tiger have the double shrek role and into the beast it should be for the high cost you are paying for it...

 Rocksitter

[8thRifleRegiment]

HVAP has very little drawbacks, the pershing still has excellent infantry accuracy, idgaf wheather it can gib an entire sqaud in 2 shors or 3, infantry is fucking useless these days anyways, theyre just body shields for the pershings, its still super easy to get atleast 20-30 infantry kills on HVAP and gib 2 guys in one shot just as easy as before, not only that, but no axis tank in the game can stand up to you short of a jagd

[Hicks58]

HVAP has very little drawbacks, the pershing still has excellent infantry accuracy, idgaf wheather it can gib an entire sqaud in 2 shors or 3, infantry is fucking useless these days anyways, theyre just body shields for the pershings, its still super easy to get atleast 20-30 infantry kills on HVAP and gib 2 guys in one shot just as easy as before, not only that, but no axis tank in the game can stand up to you short of a jagd

Spoken by a man who clearly has very little experience with HVAP Pershings.

The Pershing has never had excellent AI accuracy. 0.56 at long range, 0.75 at anything less. Considering you'll be hitting the majority of infantry at long range, you're going to be having a few misses on your hands. God help you if they grab cover.

As somebody who has actually used HVAP Pershings extensively in quite a few iterations of EiRR doctrines (That'll be how all the other doctrines have changed around it over time) the HVAP Pershing has always been crap at AI for a 545 fuel investment. There is only one way to make them worth a damn as AI and that's when you pair them up with MT Jeeps.

The Pershing's unreliable long range AI accuracy is offset by it's very large splash. Even if the round misses, so long as it lands close to the target damage will be dealt.

The HVAP Pershing? Splash goes down by 50% for short range and 40% for medium and short range. For clarification, that's a 545 fuel Sherman in terms of AI. Decent? Yes. Powerful enough for a 545 fuel investment? Not based on it's AI alone.

However, that IS why you get the ability to kick the crap out of anything except a KT or a Jagd. Both of those units will purely out-DPS you. The Tiger is capable of beating you if it has HEAT rounds and a good supply of luck (Read - doesn't bounce once). The Panther can continue to range you, but WILL be fucked in short order should the distance be closed.

HVAP gives good benefits, but there are much better alternatives as it stands. Alternatives which do not punish you for taking them.

[8thRifleRegiment]

6,3 with HVAP pershings 2:1 and thats playing as allies and without stomps. I mean, i have 12 sqauds of BARs to deal with any infantry, the HVAP pershing eats anything axis with treads, what more do i need?

Hell a few games ago i went 1v1 against a tiger he had full health i only had 3/4, i killed him and still had 1/2 my health left, and this was a face to face, no moving, no micro point blank.

and in all honesty hicks, i really dont care about splash on the tank tbh, as long as it kills 1 dude per shot and it normally does, the kills will rack up, similar to a sniper.

[CrazyWR]

some sort of indirect fire, some sort of minesweeping capability, something to handle tanks bigger than your pershing?  I'd slaughter that company with any number of builds, most of which contain paks or treadbreaker or lots of mines.

[8thRifleRegiment]

ok, but that still deosnt change the fact that the bottom line is that the pershing can adapt alot better to changeing metagames then the tiger can, and thats why the tiger falls short.

If the meta is infantry spam, HE pershing>Vanilla tiger
If the meta is tank spam HVAP pershing>Vanilla tiger

i dont see why to take a tiger esepecially now you can swap doctrine choices soo easily.

[CrazyWR]

I disagree.  The reason the tiger falls short is that it doesn't bounce anything except shitty zooks.  Pershing can eat up shreks all day long...also its faster so its easier to get out of bad situations.  But either way, the tiger is good, but not a giant concern due to the amount of ways it can be killed.  The Pershing faces far fewer types of threats. 

[8thRifleRegiment]

I disagree.  The reason the tiger falls short is that it doesn't bounce anything except shitty zooks.  Pershing can eat up shreks all day long...also its faster so its easier to get out of bad situations.  But either way, the tiger is good, but not a giant concern due to the amount of ways it can be killed.  The Pershing faces far fewer types of threats. 

Thats another huge reason. especially now zooks can penetrate a tiger as well via tank reapers

[Mysthalin]

Nah, reason tiger sucks is very simple - it's just too slow for something with a mere 0.5 moving accuracy. Beef up either - so that it can either move in like a break-through tank with some reasonable speed (base 4.5 instead of 4 would be cool) or it's moving accuracy so that it can shoot while pretending to break through (or fire on the retreat french style), and you'll be quite golden.

[Tymathee]

Yeah, i'm finding the moving accuracy is hard on the Tiger.

I did well last night, brought one in halfway through, got it to vet 1 before my micro failed hard and it flew into a bazooka, atg flurry. Was well on my way to getting 2 vet 2 tigers in under 5 games before then

I find my issue isn't so much my Tiger micro is that I can't find a good company around them yet.

[8thRifleRegiment]

Nah, reason tiger sucks is very simple - it's just too slow for something with a mere 0.5 moving accuracy. Beef up either - so that it can either move in like a break-through tank with some reasonable speed (base 4.5 instead of 4 would be cool) or it's moving accuracy so that it can shoot while pretending to break through (or fire on the retreat french style), and you'll be quite golden.

yea, i think a moving accuracy buff would be a better choice

[AmPM]

Moving accuracy would be nice, but you learn to time your movements around it and can still kite infantry.

Would I take it, yes. Is it huge, not really. Maybe a speed increase to 4.5 and a moving accuracy buff?

[NightRain]

Moving accuracy would be nice, but you learn to time your movements around it and can still kite infantry.

Would I take it, yes. Is it huge, not really. Maybe a speed increase to 4.5 and a moving accuracy buff?

Why not both? Moving accuracy AND move speed

[SnoOp]

Why not both? Moving accuracy AND move speed

Isn't that what he said

[pqumsieh]

We might look into the moving accuracy of the Tiger.

[3rdCondor]

How about leaving the tiger's range the same as it is, but giving it a better received penetration overall. That way the tiger wouldn't be able to troll at max range vs allied tanks, but it would have the survivability to either get out of the situation, or grow a pair and close in for a brawl. Consequently I would recommend removing the received pen to 0.8 buff for vet3. This would make the tiger more useful, but not overpowered because allied/british players would still be able to use tactics to defeat the Tiger. This would just make the tiger more useful for a heavy support tank because it would be able to high tail it outta there when it starts to take hits. Hellcats would still be good against it, which is how it should be because they are tank destroyers.

[NightRain]

or how Hicks has said that Tiger is a steel wall, give it less penetration from all weapons so it has extra survivability. It is slow, inaccurate and weak. The only perks it has is high splash and high health.

[tankmaster23]

+range and received penetration to start with...