The Tiger – An endangered species…

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[Tymathee]

You don't need to see it. Picture mortar smoke and RR's, Now watch a tiger tank miss every shot as it gets penetrated by the RR's that it can't shoot.

run away...btw, it bounces RR's quite well and they only do 60 dmg and that's against 1024 health.

that's 16-20 hits to kill a tiger, lmao.

[AmPM]

Tym, I want to see you Tiger in action. Do it!

Since you say you do use them, I'm curious as to why it's not on the leaderboard?

Anyway, Tiger and Pershing to 45 range.

[SophiaT1991]

blitz needs doctrine ability to ignore engine damage, or convert it to a temp slow like treadbreak and/or like 10 second speed burst, to fire past the at line and then pew pew

[NightRain]

Tym, I want to see you Tiger in action. Do it!

Since you say you do use them, I'm curious as to why it's not on the leaderboard?

Anyway, Tiger and Pershing to 45 range.

Yes I also want to see Tym use the Tiger.

Actually, I want to see a replay where it actually is a game changing factor which is above 2v2s. (2v2s are actually the best available element for tigers). A Replay where Tiger wrecks havoc. I won't approve a replay with OP double schrecks doing all the damage to be fair.

[I2ay]

run away...btw, it bounces RR's quite well and they only do 60 dmg and that's against 1024 health.

that's 16-20 hits to kill a tiger, lmao.

It bounces RR's quite frequently? Are you kidding? I play gork last night and i think i didn't penetrate twice in four or five volleys from 2 airborne squads. That thing went down SO fast. Each barrage wiped almost 1/4 of its health. Considering it can't hit RR's in SMOKE either, your at almost no risk from the tiger hurting you.

[Demon767]

Should ATG have less then 30% penetration on Tiger?

I say Yes

Should Tiger have 45+ range over the pershing

Well the pershing seems fine atm, why change it, the unit in question is the TIGER. Stop your fucking fanboyism. Its fucking annoying when you are trying to balance a unit, when you cant even test a unit change without some faggot saying. IF OPPOSING SIDE GETS IT, I WANT IT TO! The other side doesnt have the same problems as the other side, so stop fucking comparing units of another faction.

I disagree with you Tym, its like you've never played with a tiger. The tactics you just suggested.. happens every game, regardless if a Tiger is on the field. The only difference is when a tiger is on the field, you do everything worse  then you would if you brought say, 2-3 p4s for the price of the Tiger, and able to bring on the extra pop to support your P4 + the units you just said to have on the field.

[Tymathee]

It bounces RR's quite frequently? Are you kidding? I play gork last night and i think i didn't penetrate twice in four or five volleys from 2 airborne squads. That thing went down SO fast. Each barrage wiped almost 1/4 of its health. Considering it can't hit RR's in SMOKE either, your at almost no risk from the tiger hurting you.

firing i've used AB and have had them bounce off a tiger quite a bit, i know what im talking about.

and like I said, if ther's smoke GO AWAY FROM TEH SMOKE, I mean seriously, how hard is this? If you're in the middle of the smoke just firing at the tiger that's USER error, not error on part of the Tiger

and the last time someone put up a thread propsoing 45 range for the tiger, it was NUG! and he got laughed out the buiding yet for some reason now it's a valid thing? I've played with and against Tigers, I'll play later and I'll do fine, just cuz your micro is horrid, doesn't make it a bad unit, it just has limitation!

[Smokaz]

firing i've used AB and have had them bounce off a tiger quite a bit, i know what im talking about.

and like I said, if ther's smoke GO AWAY FROM TEH SMOKE, I mean seriously, how hard is this? If you're in the middle of the smoke just firing at the tiger that's USER error, not error on part of the Tiger

   

AB overruns pak, bye bye

and the last time someone put up a thread propsoing 45 range for the tiger, it was NUG! and he got laughed out the buiding yet for some reason now it's a valid thing? I've played with and against Tigers, I'll play later and I'll do fine, just cuz your micro is horrid, doesn't make it a bad unit, it just has limitation!

That was before the current m18. Get a grip please

[CrazyWR]

so the m18 needs nerfed...not buffing the tiger...

[Smokaz]

so the m18 needs nerfed...not buffing the tiger...

m18 has a role now

[Hicks58]

Should Tiger have 45+ range over the pershing

A quick question.

Have you stopped to consider the implications of Tiger vs Pershing balance if the Tiger were to not only have 70% penetration vs 50% penetration, but an additional 5 range on top?

Have you also considered the implications of a direct fire artillery-lite grade shell (In terms of splash) having 45 range?

I don't advocate the Tiger getting any buffs. It has worked well in all of the history of EiR/R until something new has been introduced - buff up the Tiger and you'll set off a spiral of other changes for every other unit that consequently gets shafted. Eventually you'll end up at the relativistically same spot, simply with bigger numbers.

But heh, if you really wanted to screw with the Tiger, try giving it the same 5 speed that the Pershing has (Tiger currently has 4, accel and decel are the same). Performance wise, except when faced off against each other, the two units perform extremely similar roles with the Pershing having that one advantage that allows it to shine with arguably greater ease.

Kicking up the range of units in EiRR though? I'm pretty sure that the SDT has always seen that as a big no-no and potential game breaker in the making.

[Demon767]

I bow down to hicks' knowledge.

[Hicks58]

I'm pretty sure there was a documentary somewhere that said sarcasm was bad for your health...

Oh well.

[Tymathee]

Hicks basically fleshed out what I said earlier about range. It performs way too well against infantry. It would be a stuh on steroids.

so the m18 needs nerfed...not buffing the tiger...

m18 is fine. It's still a glass cannon and goes down in a few hits.

although i haven't seen an m-10 since the m18 buff...lol.

[AmPM]

Tiger and Pershing at 45 range wouldn't be game breaking, it would mean that you would have tiered ranges that are intuitive based on the type of unit.

Heavy tanks 45 range
TDs 45+ range
Medium Tanks/assault guns 40 range

Tiger has issues in the current environment, not because it's a bad unit, but because it can be held off at arms reach by every AT asset in the game. The KT doesn't suffer from this nor do many other long range units.

Would it require a price hike? Probably, mostly on the manpower side of things I think. Same goes for Pershing. This would also make the Pershing better vs Panther making it a capable tank hunter with HVAP.

[Hicks58]

Tiger has issues in the current environment, not because it's a bad unit, but because it can be held off at arms reach by every AT asset in the game. The KT doesn't suffer from this nor do many other long range units.

The reason the KT isn't held off at arms reach by AT is not due to it's range in the slightest.

It's because it's a 2000 HP brick with 20% better Tiger armour that 57mm's only have a 23.8% chance to penetrate. 40 Range instead of 45 for the KT would simply mean it drives for another second or so before shooting it in the face.

Admittedly, the KT has it's 45 range due to it's appalling speed though.

Ultimately, it's the KT's sheer health backed by good armour that flips the finger at ATG's. Not it's range.

[Demon767]

I wasn't being sarcastic hicks  

[CrazyWR]

Hicks basically fleshed out what I said earlier about range. It performs way too well against infantry. It would be a stuh on steroids.

m18 is fine. It's still a glass cannon and goes down in a few hits.

although i haven't seen an m-10 since the m18 buff...lol.

err...m18s are op now.

[AmPM]

The reason the KT isn't held off at arms reach by AT is not due to it's range in the slightest.

It's because it's a 2000 HP brick with 20% better Tiger armour that 57mm's only have a 23.8% chance to penetrate. 40 Range instead of 45 for the KT would simply mean it drives for another second or so before shooting it in the face.

Admittedly, the KT has it's 45 range due to it's appalling speed though.

Ultimately, it's the KT's sheer health backed by good armour that flips the finger at ATG's. Not it's range.

Excepting ATGs, 45 range would allow it to fight back vs TDs. It would also make the Pershing much better vs a Panther. No reason that it would cause issues other than needing to balance costs.

[Smokaz]

KT already fights m18s who stay at a distance, as long as it has line of sight.