Commando T4's

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[Mukip]

The Commando tier 4's seem pretty bad.  I'm going to outline why I think they need buffing.

Special Training:  This gives extra suppression and accuracy to Commando MGs and Mortars and gives a "singe smoke usage" which I don't understand because smokes are on a timer.  This is more like a T2 or T3.  Commando support weapons are not used that often by most people and these buffs don't really encourage you to get more of them.  Now I'm fond of support weapons, I even use Commando HMGs but this need to be replaced by something more interesting and valuable.  Worst T4 in the game imo.

British Grit:  Doesn't affect commandos?  Crete Veterans affects Fallscirmjagers and Luftwaffe infantry, yet this only affects Tommies and Sappers and not the doctrine stars themselves.  The health buff is alright whilst the suppression resistance buff is negligable and won't save them from MG42 suppression so I don't see why it can't be applied to all infantry since it's a T4 and all.  Maybe reduce health buff to 15-20% and apply it to all infantry.  Either that or switch it so that it applies to all Commandos rather than Tommies and Sappers.

Commando AT: Am I right in thinking that the Commando Ambush Squad adds 2 guys to a Piat squad for 140 manpower and 35 munitions?  2 measly sten guys for that price and it's meant to be a tier 4?  Does it add any more Piats?  because if not it's a pretty bad T4.  Imagine if the doctrine that adds an extra man to KCH squads was a T4 and cost 140 manpower, this is what Commando AT seems to be the equivalent of.  The KCh doc got buffed and that was a T3 I believe.

Ok it lets them camoflauge too, but ordinary Sappers can do this anyway so I'm just left wondering why I don't buy the much cheaper Commando Piats or the superior and again cheaper Sapper Piats.  If it's going to remain the way it is these two extra sten guys need to become seriously cheaper, make the squad 250 manpower 120 muni and we got a deal.  3 Stens is not a big deal, doing half the damage of a Commando squad does not make them good at anti-infantry and they are so expensive you won't want to waste your super expensive anti-tank squad fighting infantry anyway.  These guys are completely unattractive.

Evasive Manouvres:  It will apply to all Commando support weapons too hopefully, would open up interesting tactics for Commando HMGs.

Enigma Decoded: After ten minutes your T4 becomes useless?   If this lasted the entire game or was put on uses it would be much better.  As a T4 it should do it's job better than recon planes or MI.

I think Commando AT, Enigma Decoded and British grit can be salvaged with a buff to their usefulness, Special Training should just be TBA'ed.

[LuAn]

Evasive Manouvres:  It will apply to all Commando support weapons too hopefully, would open up interesting tactics for Commando HMGs.

If this would just apply to commandos it would be fine, if Commando Weapon Teams can also use it i think it would be a bit too strong.

But commandos being able to camouflage and move while being suppressed sounds like a great t4 to me.

[RikiRude]

I think if enigma worked differently it could be worth it.

imagine if it was on for three minutes every 10 minutes. that would be very useful and could last you the whole game. though im sure there would be times where when it comes on the enemy happens to not call anything on at all anyways lol.

[Killer344]

Enigma Decoded is really powerfull at the moment tbh.

[Mukip]

Another compelling arguement from Killer.

[Killer344]

wait, do I even have to explain you what you can do with LOS on the enemy spawn for 10 minutes?

[Mukip]

Yes.  It's called discussion, elaborate on your opinions.  Also I know exactly how useful peeking into enemy spawn is, because I also play Airborne and get recon planes as a tier 1.

[Aggamemnon]

Nothing you can't do with MI Killer.
Even Recons allow pretty decent intel if you have a few.

[RikiRude]

well can the whole team see into the spawn? i wasn't sure how big the radius was visible either.

[salan]

Mukip the commando AT group has 3 piats actually.

[Mukip]

Well that's nice to know, I'm seeing it in a better light now.

[acker]

Enigma Decoded: After ten minutes your T4 becomes useless?   If this lasted the entire game or was put on uses it would be much better.  As a T4 it should do it's job better than recon planes or MI.

Make this automatically ping your opponent's unit locations every minute or so. So it shows red dots/triangles/squares on the map (like Triangulation) for two seconds, every minute of the game.

If that's overpowered (probably is, nullifies unsupported, deep-penetration cloaked units), then put it on uses.

[LuAn]

Make this automatically ping your opponent's unit locations every minute or so. So it shows red dots/triangles/squares on the map (like Triangulation) for two seconds, every minute of the game.

If that's overpowered (probably is, nullifies cloaked units), then put it on uses.

Mhm radio triangulation pracitcally does the same in a better way or?

[gamesguy2]

Make this automatically ping your opponent's unit locations every minute or so. So it shows red dots/triangles/squares on the map (like Triangulation) for two seconds, every minute of the game.

If that's overpowered (probably is, nullifies cloaked units), then put it on uses.

Mhm radio triangulation pracitcally does the same in a better way or?

Radio trangulation is difficult to setup and use.

[acker]

I didn't want it to completely replace Radio Triangulation. Triangulation can only cover half the map if placed perfectly.

[LuAn]

Radio trangulation is difficult to setup and use.

Whys that? Infantry (tommies, sappers, mandos) can build that radar thing and once its up you dont have to worry about anything.

you can put one radar thing into your spawn, one into the very right and very left end corner and cover a ver large area of the map.

@Acker i know what you mean, but i'd like to see them being able to cooperate and not doing almost the same thing in different ways.

Maybe make it work different if you have bought radio triangulation and set it up or so? Like in Engineers where a T4 requires Hull Down to be of any use, a similar but please less depenedant connection could be made with those 2 abilities.

[acker]

On most maps, the very right and left corners of the map have enemy LOS on them due to the spawn radius sight thingy. Placing perfect Triangulator things requires you to send units deep into enemy territory just to set them up, be prepared to lose units just to set them up. I think that Radio Triangulation will probably be used just to cover a thin section of the front lines or something because sending units into enemy territory is a dead giveaway that Triangulators are going up.

If it pings once every minute or so, or is set on uses, it would give the equivalent of a photograph of the area rather than real-time footage. Which is still powerful, but leaves you in the dark for the majority of the time if the enemy is advancing/retreating/moving rapidly. If you want real-time footage in a limited area, you set up the Triangulators.

[LuAn]

On most maps, the very right and left corners of the map have enemy LOS on them due to the spawn radius sight thingy. Placing perfect Triangulator things requires you to send units deep into enemy territory just to set them up, be prepared to lose units just to set them up. I think that Radio Triangulation will probably be used just to cover a thin section of the front lines or something because sending units into enemy territory is a dead giveaway that Triangulators are going up.

If it pings once every minute or so, or is set on uses, it would give the equivalent of a photograph of the area rather than real-time footage. Which is still powerful, but leaves you in the dark for the majority of the time if the enemy is advancing/retreating/moving rapidly. If you want real-time footage in a limited area, you set up the Triangulators.

Oke im starting to get the hang of your idea
And i also like it, so how about this:
They way radio triangulation currently works is it shows you the appropriate minimap icons for units inside the area.
So what if we this T4 unlock also reveals the units inside the radio triangulation? so they work together (reveal would be like enemy artillery, so you just see the unit, no fow removed)
Cooldown should be around 2-5 min or so though this would be quite powerfull.

[dravidian]

ok if Evasive Maneuvors applys to all commando units hmg sniper commandos etc it would be pretty good, but i would make it like a hetzer stealth so it wouldn't get too op, and if it does apply to all commando units im bondering between enigma and evasie as a t4 the rest are shit

[LuAn]

ok if Evasive Maneuvors applys to all commando units hmg sniper commandos etc it would be pretty good, but i would make it like a hetzer stealth so it wouldn't get too op, and if it does apply to all commando units im bondering between enigma and evasie as a t4 the rest are shit

How does the Hetzer camouflage work?

If all commando squads are able to camouflage, which means moving around while stealthed, this t4 would be a bit op, so i think it would ok if only the real commandos can camouflage and move while suppressed.

Maybe Salan you can clarify how you intent to make this t4?