No Zeal for britts if no Zeal for KCH

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[boobaka]

I don't think the copy cat britts Zeal should be the same as the Terror one!

First why even give Zeal to any britts unit? they have high hp already and with zeal and the chance to heal all game if they have the healing station it would be op!
there is no need to tell me that the germens can get medpacks. the pack is 2 use and the healing station is use till someone kills it. (80 mu for one and u chould get more if u want.)

second the commando Zeal = KCH Zeal is just a lot of BS!!!!
lets not talk about there performance just need to see that commando is 6 man and KCH is 3!! anyone that say 6=3 is a idiot.

[LuAn]

I don't think the copy cat britts Zeal should be the same as the Terror one!

First why even give Zeal to any britts unit? they have high hp already and with zeal and the chance to heal all game if they have the healing station it would be op!
there is no need to tell me that the germens can get medpacks. the pack is 2 use and the healing station is use till someone kills it. (80 mu for one and u chould get more if u want.)

second the commando Zeal = KCH Zeal is just a lot of BS!!!!
lets not talk about there performance just need to see that commando is 6 man and KCH is 3!! anyone that say 6=3 is a idiot.

you do realise that squad size has nothing to do with zeal?

1 Commando gets the same bonuses as 1 kch

[boobaka]

as u have pointed out Zeal is active when the squad has less then 4 man. but the zeal is active for KCH when its less then 3 man. lets say they get the same buffs the KCH has only 3 man to die before its GAMEOVER for them and the mandos have 6 man. do u understand the numbers 6 is bigger than 3. the mandos can fight normally till the loss there 3rd man and zeal kicks in.

let me try again.

KCH loss one man- zeal kicks in
mandos loss one man nothing happens

KCH loss another man more zeal kicks in
mandos loss another man nothing happens

KCH loss 3rd man- KCH is dead
mandos loss 3rd man - zeal kicks in

KCH- still dead
mandos loss 4th man - more zeal kicks in

KCH still dead
mandos loss 5th man- more zeal kicks in

KCH still dead
mandos get of the field.

[YourMom]

Yeah thats just lazy gamedesign.

[LeoPhone]

kch normally go down to their last HP and then die all 3 at once, commandos however arent that tough and just come in numbers.
kch zeal=useless commando zeal=good

[boobaka]

kch normally go down to their last HP and then die all 3 at once, commandos however arent that tough and just come in numbers.
kch zeal=useless commando zeal=good

well then here is a comandos player saying that too

[LuAn]

Commandos and their MP44 with Heroic Armor
KCH and their Sten with Soldier Armor

6 Commandos stand a chance versus 3 KCH, any man less and their chances fade to 0.

[boobaka]

have u tested the two?

mandos sten has better dmg in short range and has a longer short range then the mp44 of the KCH. and it is still 6 sten vs 3 mp44.
ps have u fought mando vs kch in mandos short vs KCH middle range? u should try that. and if U can't just pop smok and go kill something else.

[LuAn]

mandos sten has better dmg in short range and has a longer short range then the mp44 of the KCH. and it is still 6 sten vs 3 mp44

Always look at the whole picture:
Yes Commandos have a higher short range by 2 but please look at this:

Sten:
 Damage: 5
 Accuracy S: 0.75
 Target Table Modifiers: Infantry Heroic ->   Acc: 0.8   Dmg: 0.6

MP44:
 Damage: 7
 Accuracy S: 0.9
 Target Table Modifiers : Infantry Soldier ->   Acc: 1   Dmg: 1



KCH beats Commandos by its very numbers.

[boobaka]

short range on KCH 6
short range on mandos 8

and yes i seen it and i will be back with a dmg calculation

[gamesguy2]

mandos sten has better dmg in short range and has a longer short range then the mp44 of the KCH. and it is still 6 sten vs 3 mp44

Always look at the whole picture:
Yes Commandos have a higher short range by 2 but please look at this:

Sten:
 Damage: 5
 Accuracy S: 0.75
 Target Table Modifiers: Infantry Heroic ->   Acc: 0.8   Dmg: 0.6

MP44:
 Damage: 7
 Accuracy S: 0.9
 Target Table Modifiers : Infantry Soldier ->   Acc: 1   Dmg: 1



KCH beats Commandos by its very numbers.

If you are going to post numbers, at least learn what they mean.

There is more to a gun than damage and accuracy.   Hint, its something called cooldown.

[LuAn]

UckY: heyo
UckY: may i bother you for a moment?

Gamesguy: sure
Gamesguy: whats up

UckY: please explain to me why stens arent inferior to mp44

Gamesguy: individually they are

UckY: im a number chruncher, so i cant quite grasp it
UckY: ok

Gamesguy: but as a squad commandos beat all other infantry

UckY: mhm ok
UckY: so in your opinion its justified to give kch zeal but commandos not? or whats your opinion on zeal?

Gamesguy: i could care less about kch zeal
Gamesguy: it doesnt do anything anyways
Gamesguy: only the regen helps

UckY: so you also wouldnt mind if commandos are affected by zeal?

Gamesguy: sure

UckY: mhm but you do agree that either both kch and commandos or neither of them should be affected by zeal right?

Gamesguy: I think zeal should only affect tommies and volk/gren

UckY: thats how it currently is implemented
UckY: is it ok with you if i post this conversation on the zeal thread by boobaka?

Gamesguy: i dont care

UckY: ok thank you for talking


Conclusion: Zeal is fine  

[Killer344]

You should try using a KCH against a mando sometime LuAn, the ability to ignore the aim time leaves the kchs with 0% chances of winning such engagement.

[LuAn]

You should try using a KCH against a mando sometime LuAn, the ability to ignore the aim time leaves the kchs with 0% chances of winning such engagement.

Im not quite sure what you mean by that but im gonna try

[gamesguy2]

You should try using a KCH against a mando sometime LuAn, the ability to ignore the aim time leaves the kchs with 0% chances of winning such engagement.

Im not quite sure what you mean by that but im gonna try

I used a single commando squad to kill a KCH and two volksquads in the same engagement.

Ya they're that good.

EDIT: Ah finally found my old post with the correct numbers.

A full squad of commandos does 79.65 dps to infantry armor, 51 dps to heroic armor, 39.8dps to soldier armor, and has 390 hp and soldier armor(which is ignored by other smgs).

A squad of storms has 380 hp, and does 77.76 dps to commandos.  They are slightly inferior to the commandos, but cost as much as commandos+ nades, and any use of nade or smoke means the storms lose horribly.

A squad of KCH has 285 hp, and does 58.32 dps to commandos, receiving 51 dps in return.  Its obvious here how they lose, as they barely outdps the commandos but the commandos have like 60% more hp.

A squad of assault grens has 220 hp, and does 77.76 dps to commandos.   Here the picture is not so clear.  The assault grens do nearly twice the dps to commandos but the commandos have nearly twice the hp. 

Any use of nades or smoke make the commandos win everything though.

[Killer344]

You should try using a KCH against a mando sometime LuAn, the ability to ignore the aim time leaves the kchs with 0% chances of winning such engagement.

Im not quite sure what you mean by that but im gonna try

Use smoke, before the kchs aims at the mandos they'll be almost dead.

[AmPM]

This is sad.

DPS

Mando Squad DPS = 106.2 at short range

4 MAN KCH DPS = 77.76

3 MAN KCH DPS = 58.32

Health

Mando squad health = 390

4 MAN KCH = 380

3 MAN KCH = 270

Now, 4 MAN KCH vs Mando in a fight

Mandos do about 67.7 DPS to the KCH, killing them in 5.6 seconds or so.

KCH do about 77.76 DPS, killing the mandos in 5.0 seconds or so.

Neither squad will be in fighting shape afterwards, KCH 4 man requires a t3 unlock. KCH 4 Man has utility abilities (assault, medkit, etc) but those cost more and are not used for this comparison due to that.

Assuming the Mando's are smart enough to use their smoke, this means 1 Mando squad to kill 1 4 man KCH squad....guess which costs more....the KCH.

[gamesguy2]

Elite infantry as a free unlock has been wrecking balance since release.

[gamesguy2]

You should try using a KCH against a mando sometime LuAn, the ability to ignore the aim time leaves the kchs with 0% chances of winning such engagement.

Im not quite sure what you mean by that but im gonna try

Use smoke, before the kchs aims at the mandos they'll be almost dead.

This.  When you have assault infantry shooting at each other at close range, it takes only 4-5 seconds for them to kill each other.

That extra second of shooting the commandos get for coming out of smoke means they win every fight.

[AmPM]

No, the unlocks are fine, its that the prices of most elite infantry and the way the reinforcement packages are set up make them a) very cheap for their abilities and b) plentiful in ALL companies.