boobaka
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« on: July 21, 2009, 02:01:00 pm » |
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I don't think the copy cat britts Zeal should be the same as the Terror one!
First why even give Zeal to any britts unit? they have high hp already and with zeal and the chance to heal all game if they have the healing station it would be op! there is no need to tell me that the germens can get medpacks. the pack is 2 use and the healing station is use till someone kills it. (80 mu for one and u chould get more if u want.)
second the commando Zeal = KCH Zeal is just a lot of BS!!!! lets not talk about there performance just need to see that commando is 6 man and KCH is 3!! anyone that say 6=3 is a idiot.
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LuAn
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 02:04:10 pm » |
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I don't think the copy cat britts Zeal should be the same as the Terror one!
First why even give Zeal to any britts unit? they have high hp already and with zeal and the chance to heal all game if they have the healing station it would be op! there is no need to tell me that the germens can get medpacks. the pack is 2 use and the healing station is use till someone kills it. (80 mu for one and u chould get more if u want.)
second the commando Zeal = KCH Zeal is just a lot of BS!!!! lets not talk about there performance just need to see that commando is 6 man and KCH is 3!! anyone that say 6=3 is a idiot.
you do realise that squad size has nothing to do with zeal? 1 Commando gets the same bonuses as 1 kch
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aka UckY
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boobaka
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 02:22:49 pm » |
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as u have pointed out Zeal is active when the squad has less then 4 man. but the zeal is active for KCH when its less then 3 man. lets say they get the same buffs the KCH has only 3 man to die before its GAMEOVER for them and the mandos have 6 man. do u understand the numbers 6 is bigger than 3. the mandos can fight normally till the loss there 3rd man and zeal kicks in.
let me try again.
KCH loss one man- zeal kicks in mandos loss one man nothing happens
KCH loss another man more zeal kicks in mandos loss another man nothing happens
KCH loss 3rd man- KCH is dead mandos loss 3rd man - zeal kicks in
KCH- still dead mandos loss 4th man - more zeal kicks in
KCH still dead mandos loss 5th man- more zeal kicks in
KCH still dead mandos get of the field.
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YourMom
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 02:26:01 pm » |
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Yeah thats just lazy gamedesign.
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LeoPhone
Honoured Member
Posts: 0
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 02:34:14 pm » |
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kch normally go down to their last HP and then die all 3 at once, commandos however arent that tough and just come in numbers. kch zeal=useless commando zeal=good
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boobaka
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 02:54:25 pm » |
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kch normally go down to their last HP and then die all 3 at once, commandos however arent that tough and just come in numbers. kch zeal=useless commando zeal=good
well then here is a comandos player saying that too
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LuAn
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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 03:25:54 pm » |
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Commandos and their MP44 with Heroic Armor KCH and their Sten with Soldier Armor 6 Commandos stand a chance versus 3 KCH, any man less and their chances fade to 0.
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boobaka
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2009, 03:35:04 pm » |
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have u tested the two?
mandos sten has better dmg in short range and has a longer short range then the mp44 of the KCH. and it is still 6 sten vs 3 mp44. ps have u fought mando vs kch in mandos short vs KCH middle range? u should try that. and if U can't just pop smok and go kill something else.
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 03:48:53 pm by boobaka »
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LuAn
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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2009, 03:48:52 pm » |
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mandos sten has better dmg in short range and has a longer short range then the mp44 of the KCH. and it is still 6 sten vs 3 mp44
Always look at the whole picture: Yes Commandos have a higher short range by 2 but please look at this: Sten: Damage: 5 Accuracy S: 0.75 Target Table Modifiers: Infantry Heroic -> Acc: 0.8 Dmg: 0.6 MP44: Damage: 7 Accuracy S: 0.9 Target Table Modifiers : Infantry Soldier -> Acc: 1 Dmg: 1 KCH beats Commandos by its very numbers.
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 03:57:52 pm by LuAn »
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boobaka
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2009, 03:52:17 pm » |
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short range on KCH 6 short range on mandos 8
and yes i seen it and i will be back with a dmg calculation
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gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2009, 04:25:11 pm » |
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mandos sten has better dmg in short range and has a longer short range then the mp44 of the KCH. and it is still 6 sten vs 3 mp44
Always look at the whole picture: Yes Commandos have a higher short range by 2 but please look at this: Sten: Damage: 5 Accuracy S: 0.75 Target Table Modifiers: Infantry Heroic -> Acc: 0.8 Dmg: 0.6 MP44: Damage: 7 Accuracy S: 0.9 Target Table Modifiers : Infantry Soldier -> Acc: 1 Dmg: 1 KCH beats Commandos by its very numbers. If you are going to post numbers, at least learn what they mean. There is more to a gun than damage and accuracy. Hint, its something called cooldown.
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LuAn
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2009, 04:29:59 pm » |
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UckY: heyo UckY: may i bother you for a moment? Gamesguy: sure Gamesguy: whats up UckY: please explain to me why stens arent inferior to mp44 Gamesguy: individually they are UckY: im a number chruncher, so i cant quite grasp it UckY: ok Gamesguy: but as a squad commandos beat all other infantry UckY: mhm ok UckY: so in your opinion its justified to give kch zeal but commandos not? or whats your opinion on zeal? Gamesguy: i could care less about kch zeal Gamesguy: it doesnt do anything anyways Gamesguy: only the regen helps UckY: so you also wouldnt mind if commandos are affected by zeal? Gamesguy: sure UckY: mhm but you do agree that either both kch and commandos or neither of them should be affected by zeal right? Gamesguy: I think zeal should only affect tommies and volk/gren UckY: thats how it currently is implemented UckY: is it ok with you if i post this conversation on the zeal thread by boobaka? Gamesguy: i dont care UckY: ok thank you for talking Conclusion: Zeal is fine
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 04:42:57 pm by LuAn »
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Killer344
The Inquisitor
Posts: 6904
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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2009, 04:42:41 pm » |
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You should try using a KCH against a mando sometime LuAn, the ability to ignore the aim time leaves the kchs with 0% chances of winning such engagement.
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If I get shot and it's a gay medic fixing me up, he's not gonna be fondling my balls while he does it. You can't patch a chest wound and suck a cock at the same time.
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LuAn
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2009, 04:45:25 pm » |
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You should try using a KCH against a mando sometime LuAn, the ability to ignore the aim time leaves the kchs with 0% chances of winning such engagement.
Im not quite sure what you mean by that but im gonna try
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gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2009, 04:46:53 pm » |
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You should try using a KCH against a mando sometime LuAn, the ability to ignore the aim time leaves the kchs with 0% chances of winning such engagement.
Im not quite sure what you mean by that but im gonna try I used a single commando squad to kill a KCH and two volksquads in the same engagement. Ya they're that good. EDIT: Ah finally found my old post with the correct numbers. A full squad of commandos does 79.65 dps to infantry armor, 51 dps to heroic armor, 39.8dps to soldier armor, and has 390 hp and soldier armor(which is ignored by other smgs).
A squad of storms has 380 hp, and does 77.76 dps to commandos. They are slightly inferior to the commandos, but cost as much as commandos+ nades, and any use of nade or smoke means the storms lose horribly.
A squad of KCH has 285 hp, and does 58.32 dps to commandos, receiving 51 dps in return. Its obvious here how they lose, as they barely outdps the commandos but the commandos have like 60% more hp.
A squad of assault grens has 220 hp, and does 77.76 dps to commandos. Here the picture is not so clear. The assault grens do nearly twice the dps to commandos but the commandos have nearly twice the hp.
Any use of nades or smoke make the commandos win everything though.
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 04:51:01 pm by gamesguy2 »
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Killer344
The Inquisitor
Posts: 6904
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« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2009, 04:51:02 pm » |
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You should try using a KCH against a mando sometime LuAn, the ability to ignore the aim time leaves the kchs with 0% chances of winning such engagement.
Im not quite sure what you mean by that but im gonna try Use smoke, before the kchs aims at the mandos they'll be almost dead.
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AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
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« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2009, 04:51:53 pm » |
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This is sad.
DPS
Mando Squad DPS = 106.2 at short range
4 MAN KCH DPS = 77.76
3 MAN KCH DPS = 58.32
Health
Mando squad health = 390
4 MAN KCH = 380
3 MAN KCH = 270
Now, 4 MAN KCH vs Mando in a fight
Mandos do about 67.7 DPS to the KCH, killing them in 5.6 seconds or so.
KCH do about 77.76 DPS, killing the mandos in 5.0 seconds or so.
Neither squad will be in fighting shape afterwards, KCH 4 man requires a t3 unlock. KCH 4 Man has utility abilities (assault, medkit, etc) but those cost more and are not used for this comparison due to that.
Assuming the Mando's are smart enough to use their smoke, this means 1 Mando squad to kill 1 4 man KCH squad....guess which costs more....the KCH.
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gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
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« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2009, 04:52:42 pm » |
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Elite infantry as a free unlock has been wrecking balance since release.
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gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2009, 04:53:31 pm » |
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You should try using a KCH against a mando sometime LuAn, the ability to ignore the aim time leaves the kchs with 0% chances of winning such engagement.
Im not quite sure what you mean by that but im gonna try Use smoke, before the kchs aims at the mandos they'll be almost dead. This. When you have assault infantry shooting at each other at close range, it takes only 4-5 seconds for them to kill each other. That extra second of shooting the commandos get for coming out of smoke means they win every fight.
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AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2009, 04:54:11 pm » |
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No, the unlocks are fine, its that the prices of most elite infantry and the way the reinforcement packages are set up make them a) very cheap for their abilities and b) plentiful in ALL companies.
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