[Wehr] Heavy Support and the Axis sniper

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[EliteGren]

This needs a change. As of now, since this ability was re-introduced I havent seen a single player picking this.
Lets see what it does:
HMGs Mortars and Snipers gain 10% more range 25% more health and 20% sight.

Now, im sure the health and sight will show some usefulness, but what ORIGINALLY made HS what it was, was the range increase which used to be 25% and got toned down to 10%.

Heavy support does not add a new strongpoint to your army, unlike german steel or ferocity do inform of stronger tanks or infantry. What it gives you right now are alot of little, half baked buffs.

My suggestion is to re-add the old range increase back in, atleast for snipers to be 25%.
The axis sniper is sort of worthless right now, +5 range from HS wont help him much.
Seeing as the allied sniper gets a whole +10 range at vet 3 (which is 20%), I have to say that the axis sniper will pull the short straw here.
This is not to directly buff the axis sniper, but to buff heavy support and make it a viable doctrine choice again.

[Skaevola]

Sure, if tank reapers gets all its buffs back.

[SaintPauli]

It should probably be 20% range 20% health and 20% sight. Also range bonuses should be the same on the axis and the allied sniper (it’s probably best to remove it. I’m just saying it now…)

Tank reapers are more than fine. It’s the best infantry choice.

[Killer344]

It is not really good tbh because it doesn't affect paks anymore imo :p, it only buffs your AI stuff.

[Baine]

I agree with everything so far, it needs a buff.

[CafeMilani]

give us the old heavy support back!

[LuAn]

Oke for the not knowing people:
Wehrmacht Terror T4: Heavy Support: HMGs, mortars, snipers have 10% more range, 25% more health and 20% sight.

Oke now i feel that this doctrine unlock can be directly compare to:
American Airborne T4: Airborne Elite: Airborne squad start at vet1, 50% less drift(not done). 18% more health, sight, range(done).
(If the Airborne player decides to, he gets a HMG, Mortar and a Sniper that are affected by this unlock.)

Heavy Support affects 3 standard units
Airborne Elite affects 1 standard unit and additional 4 that can be unlocked via T3
(Nice cross over reference on how doctrine unlocks stack)


Now heres the number part:

Airborne Soldier: 70 Health * 0,18 = 12,6 per man 
(Total of 75,6 for an Airborne Squad, Total of 37,8 for an Airborne Support Weapon Squad )
Wehrmacht HMG/Mortar Soldiers: 55 Health * 0,25 = 13,75 per man 
(Total of 41,25 for a Support Weapon Squad)


Airborne Sniper: 75 Health * 0,18 = 13,5 
Wehrmacht Sniper: 75 Health * 0,25 = 18,75 

American 60mm Mortar: 75 Range * 0,18 = 13,5 
Wehrmacht 81mm Mortar: 85 Range * 0,10 = 8,5 

American Springfield Sniper Rifle: 50 Range * 0,18 = 9 
Wehrmacht Gewehr 43 Sniper Rifle: 50 Range * 0,10 = 5 

American Standard Sight: 35 Range * 0,18 = 6,3
Wehrmacht Standard Sight: 35 Range * 0,20 = 7

American Sniper Sight: 35 Range * 0,18 = 6,3
Wehrmacht Sniper Sight: 40 Range * 0,20 = 8

Now as you can see the numbers vary into both directions only by a very narrow range, but the Airborne Elite still has its Vet1 and Drift buff to it and the Health increase on airborne soldiers has a much more potential to it(because of 6 man squad size)

[EliteGren]

Wait, so if AB elite adds up to the +10 range at vet 3 the airborne sniper will have a total of 70.8 range?

[Tymathee]

Wait, so if AB elite adds up to the +10 range at vet 3 the airborne sniper will have a total of 70.8 range?

Pretty much.  The wehr sniper without vet 3 gets 69...plus the cooldown decrease and the accuracy increase, couple that with the 48 sight range, the higher health from HS and other stuff, it's still better

[EliteGren]

Wehr sniper has 50 range, 55 with heavy support, where did you get those numbers?
He USED to have 62.5 with the 25% buff from heavy support, which actually made it worth it.

[CrazyWR]

It is not really good tbh because it doesn't affect paks anymore imo :p, it only buffs your AI stuff.

this, plus the crap range buff to snipers.  Needs to be buffed.  I was planning on running heavy support til they nerfed it to hell...

[Tymathee]

btw, nothing wrong with heavy support, people would just rather have German Steel and Ferocity.

and the old heavy support was waaaay over powered and could lock down a map.

[Smokaz]

Heavy Support T4 is weak as hell currently. They removed the pak buff on it, they reduced the range of the mg, mortar and sniper. Sight is nice but terror hardly seems to be centered around detection or sight range on their unit's, thats defensive territory. The range was the most important part of it, and long range mg's can still be flanked, long range mortars can still be artied or rushed and snipers dont pwn jeeps or charging fireup infantry just because it has long range.

Only the pak was gay with the old HS, other than that the counter system remained intact which is one of those thing almost always present when an ability is out of wack. What about just putting it at a flat 25% range and health increase for 81mm, Hans and Mg42 squads?

[AmPM]

btw, nothing wrong with heavy support, people would just rather have German Steel and Ferocity.

and the old heavy support was waaaay over powered and could lock down a map.

I bolded that part that tells you something is wrong with the Doctrine Tym, just in case you missed it.

Heavy support should be range, health, maybe damage, remove the sight bonus.

It makes it better, as well as requiring spotters to gain full advantage forcing teamplay or at least tactical deployment.

[Killer344]

Oke for the not knowing people:
Wehrmacht Terror T4: Heavy Support: HMGs, mortars, snipers have 10% more range, 25% more health and 20% sight.

Oke now i feel that this doctrine unlock can be directly compare to:
American Airborne T4: Airborne Elite: Airborne squad start at vet1, 50% less drift(not done). 18% more health, sight, range(done).

wtf, AB elite affects assault troops and HS support teams, are you high or something?

[LuAn]

read the whole thing(the text in braces too)

[AmPM]

Killer, if the AB player gets the AB HMG, Mortar, Sniper and BAR teams then yes, they are all affected by AB Elite and Raid Assault.

[LuAn]

and Airborne Hard n Fast, and Airborne At Eagles(though the latter doesnt have any real impact)(But then again, another nice example of how doctrine unlocks stack themselves)

[Smokaz]

God Airborne are gonna be good with all this stuff

[LuAn]

God Airborne are gonna be good with all this stuff

Hehe you can have a entire army made up of airborne units:
Airborne, Airborne Rifleman, Airborne 57mm, Airborne HMG, Airborne Mortar, Airborne Sniper   

But thats another story