[PE] F-A-I-Lschirmjagers

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[HansVonLuk]

Far to swishy, need a hps in crease to be brought in line with grenadier/ stormtrooper.  At present there 60 hp per man that means they have the same HPs and Volts and 10 less than pioneers.  These are mean to be elite troop but they will never be that till they get at least a HP increase to increase there suviablitie.  Even with kurts finest which a15% increase to HP put them on 69 hp, 1 hp below pios, there fore they just have no surviablity.  Dont get me wrong there are still pretty good at shooting stuff, but they just dont last long enought in a fight to be of any real use.  

[Mukip]

They are only 250 manpower, they are cheaperr than a Tommy squad and pack serious firepower with g43's for just 60 munis, they are pretty cost effective in my view.  I think their vet 3 bonus should change from assault bonus to cover ability because they aren't really assault infantry. 

[HansVonLuk]

They are only 250 manpower, they are cheaperr than a Tommy squad and pack serious firepower with g43's for just 60 munis, they are pretty cost effective in my view.  I think their vet 3 bonus should change from assault bonus to cover ability because they aren't really assault infantry.  

They still cost more then Grenadier and grendiers and have huge stuviablitiy.  FJs have 5 less HPs than tommies and one less squad member, thats 105 more hit points for 15 mp. Seriously, g43s and pack serious fire power in the same sentence?  FJs are meant to be elite, but at present they are just sub par as elite infantry goes.  Due to there lower HP there have to retreat earlier than normal, lost two men and get out of there to save the vet but this happens faster,  maybe increasing the squad size to 5 man would be inorder.  At the moment I think  FJ need a little love, Ive been playing with them give them a go, not because there OP, but because i like the idea of them.  Just a shame at the moment they are subpar for elite infantry.

[CafeMilani]

thats why i dont play luft. falls die like flies if they are not in green cover.

[Mysthalin]

1 FG42 Fall beating 2 BAR rifle squads with the RIFLES being in light cover at medium range, the FG42s being in no cover at all FTW!
Yes, it actually happens. The fallshcirmjaegers have a different armor type to grenadiers, volks and pioneers. If you honestly believe a fall squad will die faster than 2 pioneer squads, you're smoking something. Yes it costs more than a gren squad, but it costs way less than mandos, storms, rangers or airborne. Cheapest for least effect on the offense.

Yes, the fall squad isn't as powerful on the offense as a commando squad - but you will find no other elite infantry this capable on the defense. Get into cover and DESTROY stuff. Not to mention the part where they cloak and are able to ambush when the falls see it fit to do it, not when the enemy decides to attack them . The vet 3 bonus needs to be changed to reflect this, of course, but the fall is a significant force.

[HansVonLuk]

thats why i dont play luft. falls die like flies if they are not in green cover.

Thats why not many that have used them see how truely bad they are at present, event with at the buffs.  In VCoH there could get the firepower uprade to make them uber, but no here in EIRR.  Thats what made them work, they suviabilty was mute compared to the amount of fire power they could out down.

[Draken]

well I find them balanced, they don't promote unskilled mad rush on enemey, you have to stay in cover, and wtfpwn with FG42.

[LuAn]

I do agree with luk here.
Falls have some serious issues in the current state of the game.
They loose 1/4 of their firing power really fast(one atgun sniper killing a fj happens) including the 30mun for the fg42.
They only have 60 Health and Soldier armor and no real "help im in trouble button" so assaulting with them often ends up in fj retreating.
You have to use them in green cover and wait for the enemy come close so that the fj reveal themselves and the enemy might receive a bit of dmg before he moves the units away.

And BTW: You only get 2 G43 for 60mun if im not mistaken.
And Tommy Section costing 5 more mp: they come as 5 man with 65hp each and soldier armor whereas they are affected by cpt, lt, officer.

I would take Tommy Section everday over FJ because they can actually take a beating and do a overall good job for their price.

[Mukip]

Try using them in moderation instead of taking 8 squads.  They are a situational unit in that they peform best when cloaked in cover with adequate support, meaning it's best to bring them on after you've already taken a defensive position and need to hold onto it.  They aren't like Airborne which you can based your entire company around. 

Serious g43s and paxk seriously fire power in the same sentence?

Have you seen what G43 ambush does to infantry?  I baited a sniper with a shreck squad before and killed the sniper in a single volley at max range with a pair of G43 Falls.  They have interesting options and reward creative use of them, but they aren't mainline ifnantry.

[Smokaz]

Like the rest of their infantry, FSJ are balanced against americans and underpowered against british.

They are good against commandos though!

And doctrinally buffed fallschirmjagers are just from hell.. too bad regular fallschirmjagers are bad.

[panzerjager1943]

Fallschrimjager health is already on-par with Grenadiers and Stormtroopers.
They have 60 Hp, yes, BUT: they have Soldier Armour, while Grenadiers/Stormtroopers have Infantry Armour.
Soldier Armour takes 25% less damage than Infantry Armour from Tommies, and 40% less damage than Infantry Armour against Riflemen.

This means their health becomes:
60/0.75 = 80 hp.
60/0.6 = 100 hp.

Against Tommies they are just as tough as Grenadiers, and against Riflemen they are slightly tougher than Stormtroopers. This is relevant information.
If an M1 Garand does 10 base damage, and has a 0.6 damage modifier against Soldier Armour, it's going to do 6 damage. If the target has 60 hitpoints, it will take 10 hits. Against Infantry Armour, the M1 Garand does full damage, and Stormtroopers have 95 hitpoints. This means it will take 10 hits to kill them; however since their health is slightly lower, there is a slightly higher chance that the Garand will get a critical hit and kill them in less than 10 hits.

[LuAn]

Ah oke thanks for telling.


Mhm oke maybe my perception/gameplay is a bit off.


On a side note:
Infantry is the only thing pe can field (besides panther and P4IST with skirts) that doesnt get gibbed by allied anti tank weaponry. And every weapon needed to support your infantry has paper armor, so to me it seems that a HMG + ATGun can hold of every PE Army.

Could somebody please help me?
Or shall i go back to my CW companies because PE is just UP?

[Sixpack]

Doesn´t soldier armor suck against Commandos and Rangers?

[HansVonLuk]

well I find them balanced, they don't promote unskilled mad rush on enemey, you have to stay in cover, and wtfpwn with FG42.

So thats it then a defensive unit that cloaks in cover and cannt hold territory while cloaked?  

The main issue is this, because Veterancy has been changed with the PE faction as a whole there is something not quite right with them.


http://coh-stats.com/Veterancy:Fallschirmjager

As you can see if you choose Defensive vet you get the following buff, Less Received Damage, less Received Suppression, increased Maximum Health and increase Health Regeneration.  Adversely if you use the firepwore vet you get increased Accuracy, faster Reload, less Cooldown and greater Penetration.

So this unit in game gets Health stack on health stack with puts the unit on par with other units later on but have a direct effect each time you receave an increase or gets firepower stack on firepower.  This is true when considering all PE units.  So Youy have change the way there receave vet and therefore the way they play, people have said that PE seem a little under powered, yep they are but what they need is not cheaper pricing but diffrent veterancy like they where intended to get.

I have lissened to people say that Fjs are best anti inf in the game, I just dont see it.

[panzerjager1943]

Doesn´t soldier armor suck against Commandos and Rangers?

Against Commandos, Soldier Armour is significantly beneficial, as they have a 66% recieved damage penalty AND 25% recieved accuracy penalty. Against Rangers (Thompsons) however, there is no penalty on accuracy or damage.

[Mysthalin]

diffrent veterancy like they where intended to get.

Where'd you get the idea fallschirmjaegers were supposed to get the same veterancy they get in vCoH? They're not, they were intended to get the vet bonuses the devs of the mod chose, not what it used to be. Or would you rather purchase crappy vet on wehrmacht instead of earning good one like it is now?

Just fix the vet 3, and the fall will have no problems to it.
If anything, in my opinion PE aren't exactly UP. Just the few players that actually play it haven't adapted to all the company builds US and Brits are building, is all.

[LuAn]

So this unit in game gets Health stack on health stack with puts the unit on par with other units later on but have a direct effect each time you receave an increase or gets firepower stack on firepower.  This is true when considering all PE units.  So Youy have change the way there receave vet and therefore the way they play, people have said that PE seem a little under powered, yep they are but what they need is not cheaper pricing but diffrent veterancy like they where intended to get.

I totally agree with you!
I switched over from CW to PE, but whereas CW retained its Command Unit System (LT,CPT, CCT) in a slightly reduced version, PE has lost it entire veterancy system.

And on a site note:
Why arent camouflaged FJ's and LuftwaffeInfantry able to hold or capture territory while cloaked? As soon as one guy cloaks they territory effect becomes deactivated which makes the capturing and defending territory part a real challenge(try to get a 5man squad anywhere where theres no cover on all of them)

@Mystahlin: show me how you play PE please! Preferably versus Airborne Players please.

[HansVonLuk]

diffrent veterancy like they where intended to get.

Where'd you get the idea fallschirmjaegers were supposed to get the same veterancy they get in vCoH? They're not, they were intended to get the vet bonuses the devs of the mod chose, not what it used to be. Or would you rather purchase crappy vet on wehrmacht instead of earning good one like it is now?

Just fix the vet 3, and the fall will have no problems to it.
If anything, in my opinion PE aren't exactly UP. Just the few players that actually play it haven't adapted to all the company builds US and Brits are building, is all.

The point is that now Brits get vet for squads and vet for capts and Lts to make them better, PE have now got Vet in line with everyone else where as they need there own vet system.  FJs with 3 firepower upgrade are awesome, vet 3FJs with the EiRR buff are just not as good.

[Draken]

well only way to balance FJs is by doctrine unlock there could be something like that terror buff for kch (extra guy in squad), it could replace kurt finest (or shrek for fals) if you really find fals UP.

[HansVonLuk]

well only way to balance FJs is by doctrine unlock there could be something like that terror buff for kch (extra guy in squad), it could replace kurt finest (or shrek for fals) if you really find fals UP.

Its fine dont change falls, just see less of them in use. The really gamers will just go, these are under powered and so I wont use them.  So I guess Ill have to avoid them aswell.  

Falls should be a powerful AI platform, but there just dont last long enought to pay off there price.  Even with the present docterine unlocks they are failshirmjagers.