Jagd: Balance Thread.

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[Baine]

THe pop can stay the same, rest of the changes sound ok.

[CafeMilani]

there is nothing wrong with the jagd.
just decrease the availability of all heavy tanks (tiger, pershing, KT, jagd) to 1, not more.
tank hunters is a crap doctrine without a good jagdpanther tbh because: they dont have falls. they dont have assault. they dont have healing units. they only have AT.

btw, why does the panther cost only 40 less fuel than the pershing? u can only kill tank with it so its a bit overpriced imo.
and why does the tiger cost 10 more fuel than the pershing? the pershing is much more mobile.


and make hummel, priest and especially calli cost many PPs

[Draken]

and why does the tiger cost 10 more fuel than the pershing

And that part is another proof why you are banned from balance threads.

[pqumsieh]

Tank Hunters are by far one of the best doctrines out there. Stating that they do not have access to falls, healing, or assualt is mute. Consider this, one buffed hetzer is enough AT backed by a possible 50mm (14 pop) leaving me with 11-26 pop for AI. I do just fine, in an actual game my hetzer or jag is always one and is always enough to cover my AT. If I feel the need, I call on the 50mm for support. I end up having 2/3 of my battalion dedicated to AI; making me a very hard doctrine to counter. I can take on blobs, armor spam, and support spam with very few weaknesses.

The best trick up my sleave? A light ATHT with focus fire; using a wagon to spot units ahead. Essentially, every 200 seconds I get a fast shooting sniper which deals incredable damage and has the range of a sniper. When I run two at a time, I eat blobs for breakfast when combined with G43 Slow.

TH is not weak at AI; the fact that their AT is buffed so much gives them more room to cover AI when compared to other doctrines.

Play the game, and play it at the high tiers before you post aloha.

PQ

[CafeMilani]

Tank Hunters are by far one of the best doctrines out there. Stating that they do not have access to falls, healing, or assualt is mute. Consider this, one buffed hetzer is enough AT backed by a possible 50mm (14 pop) leaving me with 11-26 pop for AI. I do just fine, in an actual game my hetzer or jag is always one and is always enough to cover my AT. If I feel the need, I call on the 50mm for support. I end up having 2/3 of my battalion dedicated to AI; making me a very hard doctrine to counter. I can take on blobs, armor spam, and support spam with very few weaknesses.

The best trick up my sleave? A light ATHT with focus fire; using a wagon to spot units ahead. Essentially, every 200 seconds I get a fast shooting sniper which deals incredable damage and has the range of a sniper. When I run two at a time, I eat blobs for breakfast when combined with G43 Slow.

TH is not weak at AI; the fact that their AT is buffed so much gives them more room to cover AI when compared to other doctrines.

Play the game, and play it at the high tiers before you post aloha.

PQ

if ur facing atguns, snipers and AB ur just fucked

i had a jagd company myself. and i got sick of getting pwned by raidassault ABs.
ofc the jagd i very nice at killing tanks. and sometimes it also kills infantry (even more with hunterkillers) but ok, its a t4.

its not a big problem to kill a jagd with all these nice AT units and tiers allies have IMO

its just a t4 that makes jagds also able to kill some infantry, so what?

[RubixCubed]

if ur facing atguns, snipers and AB ur just fucked

Jagd > at guns, Mortar > At guns
Flank > Sniper,
Gwehrs + mp44 > AB

I don't see a problem.

[AmPM]

Yea, I never had trouble fighting anything with my Tank Hunters. Probably one of the most powerful doctrines out there. Dual 50mm ATHTs basically gives you all the AT you need, and then you just use a mortar and pile of AI stuff to kill everything else.

[Armfelt]

The tricky thing nowadays may be all the offmaps on the field that kills everything around the "super heavies". There ain´t much counter against a click on the map. =P

+ a well placed mine can result in a dead jagdpanther or königtiger.

I can agree that the price of the jagd could be increased to about the same of the KT. It doesn´t got a turret but it got speed.

[CafeMilani]

but it only gets good with 1(!) t4? stop crying, concentrate on broken things. srsly.

[pqumsieh]

As i've said before, the jagd is fine; even with doctrine buffs its arguable not an OP unit. However, there are aspects of the TH doctrine that are overpowered; specifically, I'd argue improved scopes is because the range increase provides you with an ability to totally avoid any damage or retalation from the enemy.

I abused it to the point where I forced the enemy to rush, and when they did, I made them pay ten fold. This type of playstyle gives you the advantage of cover, a tactical advantage, and therefore the upper hand. Even when you take out a hetzer or a 50mm; you've lost half of your AB or a good amount of infantry/support/armor. With compitent teammates, this type of advantage is very difficult to overcome and oven forces allies to blob to hell in order to stand a chance.

What does this all mean? Well, a lot of the gripes players are having all come down to issues that are present in balance. Perhaps ally players blob to hell because its the only way to counter heavy tank spam? Perhaps axis spam heavy tanks because its the only way to counter ally blobs. These issues are all linked together, but many people have chosen to either remain ignorent of these facts or are recongizing them and trying to bring in a change. Ontop of this all, you have things like offmap spam (RCA) who counters a lot of the things the axis need in order to counter the ally blob. Its a big shit cluster fuk imo, it'll only be fixed through some attempt to achieve 'relative' balance in the mod. Something the devs will work on in the next few weeks im sure.

PQ

[EliteGren]

^ +1

[LeoPhone]

i already know what the problem is: its is crazy fast turning speed.
man! i had like 3 m10s circlestrafing the jagt, and every time the jagt was ready to shoot, it did becouse it could turn so fast. m10s didnt stand a chanse.
make it turn slower, like a marder.

oh, and the doctrines that make it pwn infantry are stupid too, remove.

[CrazyWR]

Agreed with pq

[Mgallun74]

6-7 TR 57mm shots, including 4 AP rounds..

thing was barely half dead..   then chased it with 2 m10 mad rush 3-4 more hits, got weaker, but ya.. then later another m10 and sherman, 3-4 hits.. buahhaha lol.

thing has too much health, to sit there and shoot at it that many times with allied T4 is funny.

[Aggamemnon]

They were different jagds Mag.

The first one would of died, except it had two other players backing it up all the way back down the road.
I'm for a relook at heavies, but these units shouldn't be gimped out the game, they are key factors in a doctrines uniqueness.

[Mgallun74]

They were different jagds Mag.

The first one would of died, except it had two other players backing it up all the way back down the road.
I'm for a relook at heavies, but these units shouldn't be gimped out the game, they are key factors in a doctrines uniqueness.

my point is, nobody was supporting it when a TR 57mm with AP rounds hit it, i dont know how many, maybe at least 6 hits.. it just sat there in front of me like ya, your a bug, i will swat u down lol.

i never really paid attention to the health on the jagd, its nuts, way out of wack and blame relic, no mods here.. its not a super heavy tank like some say, its the same weight as panther, same armor etc.  it shouldnt be that tough to kill.. i dont care about the gun and what it does, serves it right as it was the best AT gun of the war imho.

[Killer344]

They were different jagds Mag.

It was the same jagd, I repaired it  .

i never really paid attention to the health on the jagd, its nuts, way out of wack and blame relic, no mods here.. its not a super heavy tank like some say, its the same weight as panther, same armor etc.  it shouldnt be that tough to kill.. i dont care about the gun and what it does, serves it right as it was the best AT gun of the war imho.

LOL, jagds have even better armor than KTs.

[Mgallun74]

They were different jagds Mag.

It was the same jagd, I repaired it  .

i never really paid attention to the health on the jagd, its nuts, way out of wack and blame relic, no mods here.. its not a super heavy tank like some say, its the same weight as panther, same armor etc.  it shouldnt be that tough to kill.. i dont care about the gun and what it does, serves it right as it was the best AT gun of the war imho.

LOL, jagds have even better armor than KTs.

what the jagd tiger? 

jagd panther dont, same side and rear as normal panther, only difference is the entire font is sloped, but its still 80mm like normal panther.

[Killer344]

ffs Mgallun, game =/= reality.

[Selmis]

 like i said before jagd is good with doctorines and there are 4 of them tank hunters 12% damage buff t2, unlocking jagh itself t3, panzerfear or panzercomand t3 and hunter killers or telescopic scopes . and these are all of t3 and t4 so wtf u are whining peaple? does tank hunters have imba offmaps like superfirestorms se have, no  ? can we repair our tank like 4 times, no? and the funniest thing when ppl try to say i can't kill jagh with 3 m 10 . m10 have crappy hp no armor only dmg and they 3 cost would be about the same as jaghs. and good players counter jagh with quite easy only whiners who don't think cry out in forums.