overbuffed T17

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[jackmccrack]

Meh.

[fallensoldier7]

T17s are pretty powerful but it's not like anyone can use them to great affect.  I've seen players try to use them and suck terribly with them because they can't micro.  It's not like the last war when everyone had OBM and they could get a second and third try with their T17s; you only get 2 tries (1 if you just suicide your T17).  I think a small fuel increase would be justified. 

It does penetrate vehicles. I just lost two P4s and a StuG from front shots on sliver health. Not to mention it can stun a Panther ensuring it's death (provided there's at least one other supporting weapon) and its much faster than the Ostwind.

Yea, sliver of health.  If that was an M8 the same thing would have happened.  If I had a sliver of health Sherman or M10 crawling back to my spawn, then an up-gunned puma could kill it too.  Nothing's wrong with a T17 being able to kill a 2% health PIV or stug.

And about your panther, you get stunned and then hit by his support weapons.  Where is your support?  Usually if I know there's a T17 on the field, I'm extra cautious on putting my tanks a little further towards the back of my forces, near a pak if I can.  A panther is even easier to keep behind your forces because of its extra long range.  Unless you get surprised by a few T17s coming out of nowhere, your panther should be able to stay away from stun range.  If it does get stunned, then at least it shouldn't be within AT gun range, or you've got your panther way too far up.

[VERTIGGO]

Yea, sliver of health.  If that was an M8 the same thing would have happened.  If I had a sliver of health Sherman or M10 crawling back to my spawn, then an up-gunned puma could kill it too.  Nothing's wrong with a T17 being able to kill a 2% health PIV or stug.

And about your panther, you get stunned and then hit by his support weapons.  Where is your support?  Usually if I know there's a T17 on the field, I'm extra cautious on putting my tanks a little further towards the back of my forces, near a pak if I can.  A panther is even easier to keep behind your forces because of its extra long range.  Unless you get surprised by a few T17s coming out of nowhere, your panther should be able to stay away from stun range.  If it does get stunned, then at least it shouldn't be within AT gun range, or you've got your panther way too far up.

You don't seem to understand the mechanics. This guy was saying they don't penetrate, and I saw them penetrate the frontal armor of P4s. Sliver health gives a penetration buff to protect limping vehicles which is why it's surprising that they penetrated the front even with that buff, and your argument is backwards. No one mentioned the damage they deal.

The point is that the second the enemy knows there's a panther on the field, they plop 2-3 of these light vehicles in for the same pop. They're fast enough that you can't get even kite, they just swarm like flies, and no you cant park a panther next to a PaK. They have the same role; you can't seriously assume I will sink 19 pop into an AT position because one AT unit is helpless without another AT to protect it. The panther is the closest thing the Axis have to the Allies guerrilla vehicle spam, and it can't counter it. That's really what I'm saying. When the field is loaded with light vehicles, the only counter is a Panther, since P4s are way too slow and Pumas get slaughtered in 2-3 shots. However, the counter to the Panther is now... another light vehicle? That just robs Wehr of its viability against light vehicle spam.

*gets ready to hear all about how I should sink all of my mun in schrecks*

[RikiRude]

ostwinds rape light vehicles if they aren't in too much of a swarm, so pak and ostwind would be a decent combo, but ostwind is slow.

upgunned pumas are your best bet, they play just about the same roll as an M8.

[VERTIGGO]

ostwinds rape light vehicles if they aren't in too much of a swarm, so pak and ostwind would be a decent combo, but ostwind is slow.

upgunned pumas are your best bet, they play just about the same roll as an M8.

Except that they miss constantly, have no mines and are useless vs. infantry?

[RikiRude]

no way man, supported ostwinds rape. all you need is an MG next to it, if you keep them still they hit their targets quite well. I've pushed back ranger and RR squads with ostwind + mg. either way ostwind is probably your best bet to cover an ATG from light vehicles.

so 10 pop for ostwind, 3 for mg, and 4 for ATG, that's 17 multi purpose pop cap that will do better vs light vehicles then panther + ATG.

also keep your paks cloaked because it gives you a better chance of hitting that light vehicle on the first hit.

[gamesguy2]

no way man, supported ostwinds rape. all you need is an MG next to it, if you keep them still they hit their targets quite well. I've pushed back ranger and RR squads with ostwind + mg. either way ostwind is probably your best bet to cover an ATG from light vehicles.

so 10 pop for ostwind, 3 for mg, and 4 for ATG, that's 17 multi purpose pop cap that will do better vs light vehicles then panther + ATG.

also keep your paks cloaked because it gives you a better chance of hitting that light vehicle on the first hit.

A T17 and a M10 is far better AT/AI and costs less.

T17s vastly outperform ostwinds and need a large fuel cost increase.

[CrazyWR]

No.  T17's are strictly anti-infantry.  Ostwinds can deal with light vehicles, t17's can't.  M8's are better than t17's...

[wildsolus]

t17/at gun or t17/m10 is one of the best combos in the game.

you can take on any tank except super heavies with a t17 on the field.

[gamesguy2]

No.  T17's are strictly anti-infantry.  Ostwinds can deal with light vehicles, t17's can't.  M8's are better than t17's...

Ostwinds are terrible anti-vehicle.  They can kill a M8 if it sits in front of the ostwind for two minutes but realistically ostwind's anti-vehicle capabilities is pretty bad.

M8s are in no way better than T17s except for the mine.   T17s have more health, kill infantry way better, and when was the last time you tried to fight a tank with just a M8?

[CrazyWR]

Fair enough.  M8's do a lot better vs PE vehicles than t17 though.

[gamesguy2]

Fair enough.  M8's do a lot better vs PE vehicles than t17 though.

T17 rapes the infantry HT and all PE HTs, only the armored car presents a problem, and the M8 isn't exactly stellar anti-AC either.  By the time you kill an AC with a M8, it will have raped all your infantry.

[Mysthalin]

Sliver health gives a penetration buff to protect limping vehicles which is why it's surprising that they penetrated the front even with that buff

First of all - it doesn't. The staghound has a 20 percent chance to penetrate the P4 at close range, meaning one in 5 shots will penetrate it's front.

And no, it's not surprising. Anything can penetrate anything - even riflemen can penetrate the front armour of a tiger.

[Trishut]

No.  T17's are strictly anti-infantry.  Ostwinds can deal with light vehicles, t17's can't.  M8's are better than t17's...

Ostwinds are terrible anti-vehicle.  They can kill a M8 if it sits in front of the ostwind for two minutes but realistically ostwind's anti-vehicle capabilities is pretty bad.

M8s are in no way better than T17s except for the mine.   T17s have more health, kill infantry way better, and when was the last time you tried to fight a tank with just a M8?

I fight tanks with M8!
There is no better counter against marder then a M8. And I send my M8 after stugs, stuH, and to help other tanks fight P4, panther.

[LuAn]

So now we have finally come to the conclusion that both T17 and M8 are awesome vehicles and totally rock versus alot of things including almost every PE Vehicle?

[Trishut]

So now we have finally come to the conclusion that both T17 and M8 are awesome vehicles and totally rock versus alot of things including almost every PE Vehicle?

Nope M8 is good against tank if you micro it good but it's horrible against vehicles. And the T17 can kill a HT but it will be hard if it have any anti tank on it. Like 50mm, or a shrek.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Nope M8 is good against tank if you micro it good but it's horrible against vehicles. And the T17 can kill a HT but it will be hard if it have any anti tank on it. Like 50mm, or a shrek.

Light vehicles can circle all non-turreted vehicles and kite Schrecks easy.

[jackmccrack]

I find the M8 better versus vehicles because the T17 will bounce shots even on halftracks.

[RikiRude]

T17 is horrible against light vehicles, your best bet is to stun then get behind of it. M8 is where it is at for taking on light vehicles. I'd say ir probably takes 8-10 penetrating shots from a T17 to take out a HT class vehicle, but 60% of the shots bounce, some where a long those lines.

[gamesguy2]

T17 is horrible against light vehicles, your best bet is to stun then get behind of it. M8 is where it is at for taking on light vehicles. I'd say ir probably takes 8-10 penetrating shots from a T17 to take out a HT class vehicle, but 60% of the shots bounce, some where a long those lines.

T17 has 400% penetration on halftracks, it shouldn't bounce.

The only light vehicle it has trouble with is puma/AC.

I fight tanks with M8!
There is no better counter against marder then a M8. And I send my M8 after stugs, stuH, and to help other tanks fight P4, panther

T17 can kill marders too, and against real tanks the T17 is way better than the M8.  You can stun the tank and get in close behind it, and the stun allows your other AT to get off more free shots as well.

T17 is basically much better than the M8 at nearly everything.  It needs a fuel increase back to 90.