Shrek price

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[VERTIGGO]

lets just throw some icing on that cake and give the brits moveable 17s (with regenerating health after movement)

How about not.

The irony is that I wasn't being sarcastic. 17lbers kill a few tanks, pack up and move, and when they set up again, they have more health than before because of the bunker re-crewing buff.

[RikiRude]

You also have to considering the amount and types of armor each side throws out.

also keep in mind how difficult it is to get a sticky on a tank unless your rifles have vet 2. so don't make stickies seem like they will totally stop a tank from circling a 57.

[DasNoob]

Shrek price moving up from 120-140 means that the amount of MU it took to buy 6 will only buy you 5 now.... god that is terrible.

[sgMisten]

......Looking at this, I think even the pak should come down slightly in price to 120 munitions.

I don't think Pak needs a price drop. It's deadly enough as it is and has cloak which gives it a free 1st strike bonus that the 57mm has to pay to get.

150 mun for 188 dmg several times or 120 mun for 147 dmg once. Hmm... I'd say there's no real difference

Either way, this is another example of one-sided "balancing". Instead of vcoh, where the wehr AT gets several free ambush strikes because even with the bonus they are weaker than the 57, we get the exact same US AT gun, and our paks nerfed twice (one ambush shot, not cloaked movement without doc, and the near impossibility of retreating the crew because the last man just stands there like a moron after de-crewing. Oh in case that wasn't enough, lets just throw some icing on that cake and give the brits moveable 17s (with regenerating health after movement) and an AT that's cheaper than the PaK, can camo during combat, and does 40% more damage on all shots. Hmm.

I'm getting annoyed by this perception that 57mm > pak38. Gamesguy and I have posted like 20 times between us the proper stats but this devil keeps popping up.

Some time ago, me:
57mm and Pak38 have virtually same damage. 57mm fires 150 damage every 3.5 seconds, Pak38 115 damage every 2.5 seconds, which is 147.5 damage every 3.5 seconds.

From gamesguy, some time ago:
A lot of misconceptions here.

First of all, paks outdps 57mm, not the other way around.  They have the same penetration against similar targets, and the pak outdps the 57mm by approximately 10%.

Secondly, cloak first strike bonus is like a super AP round shot that always hits.  Where as the 57mm has to PAY for AP rounds(which is only two shots), pak gets it for free every time it cloaks.  In addition, the cloaked shot has a large accuracy bonus, AP rounds do not.   On top of that, recrewed paks retain their cloak ability where as the AP rounds that you paid for died with your original 57 crew.

Thread:
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=8855.45

And back on topic, Wehr Grenadier Shreks are too expensive imo.

[Mysthalin]

Wehrmacht pays 280 munitions for this basic at package.

120+140 = 260, not 280.

180+110 = 290 (for RR + AT), not 280.

Ranger zooks + 57mm = 190 munitions.

= 200 munitions, you mean. Zooks were upped to 90 mun per bundle, 55 for single.

Ranger zooks + 57mm + sticky (the whole shebang you could ever need) = 250 munitions.

It's also 15 popcap, which leaves you quite, quite underperforming at anti-infantry, and very succeptible to mortars/nebels.

[Smokaz]

check pak and shrek price again. Both the pak and the shrek is 140 now.

[Mysthalin]

check pak and shrek price again. Both the pak and the shrek is 140 now.

Try again - it's definately 120.

[GeneralGlacko]

Faust might be UP but its enough now that im getting 12+ at the price of one shrek thanks to the vet buff for volks.

[Smokaz]

I could have sworn the pak was 140 munitions last night.

[sgMisten]

Pak 38 is 380 MP, 120 MUN.
57mm is 380 MP, 110 MUN + 40 MUN for AP rounds.

Pak38 gets to cloak, 1st strike bonus can be used infinite number of times even with recrewing, and gives accuracy buff.

[Blitzen]

I don't have a signle gren squad with a shreck, its just not worth it one bit.  Most sherman shots take out a guy, light vehicles will rape them.  Random ATG shots will kill one of the guys.  I don't know how the guys without stormies survive.

[Freek]

Stick shreks behind cover, behind a PaK.

[Blitzen]

And what??  wait for a someone stupid enough to rush a pak+shreck??  I don't play stupid people usually....

[Mysthalin]

Stick shreks behind cover, behind a PaK.

MMM.... howitzer food.

[Malevolence]

Stick shreks behind cover, behind a PaK.

MMM.... howitzer food.

MMM... howitzer is offmap food. Let's stay away from theorycrafting, shall we, or we'll be here all day...

[Mysthalin]

Don't tell me you wouldn't offmap/onmap grenadiers that are standing behind invisible green cover?

[Malevolence]

Don't tell me you wouldn't offmap/onmap grenadiers that are standing behind invisible green cover?

Don't tell me you wouldn't offmap/onmap a 105mm howitzer?

[Mysthalin]

Why waste an onmap when I can use a 40 FU puma?

[Freek]

wasting an onmap on 1 squad in cover... sounds smart (not)

[Illegal_Carrot]

wasting an onmap on 1 squad in cover... sounds smart (not)

If you were going to make an armored push, and the only thing holding you back was a Schreck squad, then using arty to kill/retreat them would indeed be a good idea.
That being said, you'll never run into this problem because 1. Schrecks are a joke, and aren't even a soft counter to any armor, and 2. No one even takes Schrecks.

Schrecks were a bit over-priced at 120Mu; at 140Mu they're no more than a joke. Reducing their price back to 120Mu would help to make them more in line with other HHAT, though they'd still be less cost-effective than PIATs/RRs.