Heavy tanks and what It means

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[Ununoctium]

# of pershings: 3
# of player using pershings: 2

# of tigers: 6 with xp ~3 without
# of KT: 4 with xp ~ 1 without
# of jagdpanther: 2

While this may just be early lag it seems nobody wnat big things anymore.
Jagd is just a big investment all the way to T4 and makes for an unfun company for a while, and pershing is just not worth it in this environment.

Things Pershing is afraid of:
Geshutz, Marder, camo pak, camo storms, 50mm, panther, clown cars, other heavies, mines
Things axis heavy is afraid of:
57, 6pdr, RR blob, sappers, firefly, mines

the major difference here is that the allied AT guns always get gibbed by the axis heavies but pershing never kills paks. So the new list becomes:

Things Pershing is afraid of:
Geshutz, Marder, camo pak, camo storms, 50mm, panther, clown cars, other heavies, mines
Things axis heavy is afraid of:
AT gun blob, RR blob, sappers, firefly, mines

On top of this is the fact that pershing repair on fixes 50% hp while all the others repair 75% of their hp and they have more hp.

back to my oldschool saying: buff the pershing. AND FIX THE REPAIR BUG.

[Baine]

Yeah right, because all heavy tanks kill ATgs easily. You are overestimating them...

And as for the axis heavies you forgot to add stickies and light vehicle spam to the list, as well as M18s and Piat clown cars and Pershings.

Taken from another Thread to prove light vehicle threat:

it works.

if theres a KT i might go double m8 and mine both ends.

[Blitzen]

You left out kangaroo cars, bren carriers, bren tommies as well, also stickies.

[Smokaz]

If you send a lone 57mm against a tiger without backing it up, the tiger will annihiliate it in 1 to 3 shots. I happily stand my ground against 57mms or 6pounders withOUT AP rounds or button/sticky support, shows them who is boss.

Dumb noobs thing they can challenge the tiger, hah!

The real problem is bren carriers rushing it or kangaroos, since you can't back up fast enough to avoid the effect beginning. Only a supporting pak or shrek squad can deal with this.

[GeneralGeneralGlacko]

The only real dastardly thing i've seen done to the kt is having 2 t17s circle strafe me while stunning me twice and often having an offmap come down on me, which in any case is uncounterable......and the m8 mines :L

[fallensoldier7]

The only real dastardly thing i've seen done to the kt is having 2 t17s circle strafe me while stunning me twice and often having an offmap come down on me, which in any case is uncounterable......and the m8 mines :L

Wow, where was the rest of your army?

[GeneralGeneralGlacko]

The only real dastardly thing i've seen done to the kt is having 2 t17s circle strafe me while stunning me twice and often having an offmap come down on me, which in any case is uncounterable......and the m8 mines :L

Wow, where was the rest of your army?

Staring at the support weapon spam that my kt needs to take out singlehandedly always.

[Mysthalin]

If you send your KT to take out an army of support weapons on it's own, that's a waste of a perfectly good KT.

[RikiRude]

A KT and quite easily take out 3-4 ATGs with AP rounds no problem, as long as he's not fighting all those ATGs at the same time. And all he's gotta do is bring a sniper along and it makes the work all the much easier. KTs are still a bitch for me, even if you focus on the other side of the map that KT will make it's way over to his buddies armies while someone captures the side of the map the KT isn't on anymore. I don't fear KTs in a 3v3, but in a 2v2 they hit quite hard.

[GeneralGeneralGlacko]

If you send your KT to take out an army of support weapons on it's own, that's a waste of a perfectly good KT.

Or would you prefer i wait for the 3-5 light vehicle convoy with half of them having stun/mines and/or an offmap to call in.

[Tymathee]

If you send your KT to take out an army of support weapons on it's own, that's a waste of a perfectly good KT.

+1 seriously? you had no mortars of your own? gerns? volks? other tanks? no kind of artillery? you never, ever send any heavy tank in by itself. A heavy tank on either side is only as good as its support, if theres no support, it's useless imo because of all heavy tanks issue in regards to turret rotation and speed.

[GeneralGeneralGlacko]

If you send your KT to take out an army of support weapons on it's own, that's a waste of a perfectly good KT.

+1 seriously? you had no mortars of your own? gerns? volks? other tanks? no kind of artillery? you never, ever send any heavy tank in by itself. A heavy tank on either side is only as good as its support, if theres no support, it's useless imo because of all heavy tanks issue in regards to turret rotation and speed.

Thats the thing, it's support weapon spam so in order for my one- 2 squads of vet 3 volks to break through, i need to take out hmg's in houses and 3-4 atgs before i can move in with inf.

[Smokaz]

Both the tiger and the KT shines supported by a sniper and a swimm.

I've done Tiger + Sniper + Swimm start in two 2v2's now, and as long as your ally doesnt completely waste all his units in a short amount of time it packs a huge amount of punch.

[Mysthalin]

Both the tiger and the KT shines supported by a sniper and a swimm.

I've done Tiger + Sniper + Swimm start in two 2v2's now, and as long as your ally doesnt completely waste all his units in a short amount of time it packs a huge amount of punch.

I can attest to the power of said callin, and it basically takes a firefly start to stop it(not beat it horribly). That is, if the other player starts with at least one marder/50mm HT/pak to support the Tiger with. Which is pretty much a given.

[Smokaz]

Yeah, you can rape it if you know its coming, but its not a very standard wehrmacht callin now is it? You see that tiger opening fire on your screening infantry blowing them to bits from outside the fog of war (barrels + swimm), so you move up your 57mm and just as it is about to fire a crewmember gets sniped and then the tiger mops up the remaining two in one shot.

All tank + sniper starts are powerful, its just that defensive and terror can use offmaps to achieve the same effect so you don't see it that much. With a p4 you can afford a shrek squad and a halftrack to hide the sniper in, then again the p4 doesn't have the nasty stopping power of a tiger hitting your squad.

Unless your enemy's company consists of large amounts of fireflies and recons, that is..

[Mysthalin]

.

Meh, I don't want to play that brittish company at all.
It will take me 60-120 games before I finally get all the doctrines and resource advantages, and I'm level 7!

Just because I won a lot of my early games ;(.

[Ununoctium]

I apologize for forgetting brens and clown cars, I'm often forgetful of british.

But see how much easier it is to use axis heavies than the pershing. your all saying "sniper, and recon or Pak and unOP enemies are countered"

Where is the "pershing rofl easy" part?

[Smokaz]

Seeing as there is no point in armor fielding a sniper for the purposes of removing Paks, you could get a calliope and just pewpew the area either as the pershing engages or right before it moves in. A t17 could support the pershing, stunning p4s trying to get away or enemy tanks returning fire. A 57mm with AP rounds might be handy as well.

There's not much difference in supporting a pershing versus a tiger other than the paks being harder to locate, then again axis handheld AT is far worse against the pershing than allied handheld AT is against the Tiger.

[Mysthalin]

There is a difference, smokaz. A tiger will (generally) beat 2 Shermans rushing it, whereas a Pershing, if unsuported, will usually die to 2 P4s.

[VERTIGGO]

back to my oldschool saying: buff the pershing.

Typical argument.

I don't see where you get this "tiger owns while pershing groans" nonsense.

The major differences are slim:

Tiger is slower and penetrates its targets less often
Pershing's bounces more hits, it has slightly smaller area effect (5 vs 5.3) and slightly less HP (960 to 1064)

damage and accuracy are identical