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[Smokaz]

The balance advisors are having a discusssion about armor and tank hunter doctrine. Two units being discussed are the mortar halftrack and the 50mm ATHT.

How do you as a player rate these two units in terms of representing their unit type (mortar and AT option)? Are they the very best, somewhere in the middle or the worst? I wont skew the discussion by proposing what I myself think, but try to think about how good the units actually are and not as much the degree you "like" or prefer this unit because of good perience with it or other.

Post like this: Similar role units from the same both sides best to worst, top to bottom. These are just examples. Whats interesting here is how high and what units you rate lower than the MHT and the 50mm ATHT.

88mm Wehr
Mortar Halftrack
60mm
2 inch mortar

and

Pak
57mm
Marder
Stug
M18

Thank you!

[GeneralGlacko]

2inch mortar emplacement
88mm Wehr mortar
60mm mortar
MHT
2inch vanilla mortar


Pak
57mm
Marder
50mm
M18
Stug

[EliteGren]

Mortar Emplacement
Mortar Halftrack
81mm mortar
60mm
2 inch

Pak
50mm
57mm
6 pounder
Geschutzwagen
Marder
M18
StuG

[Draken]

MHT (with flame shells) = 81mm
2inch mortar emplacement
60mm mortar
2inch vanilla mortar

Pak
50mm
Marder
57mm
m18
stug

[BigDick]

considering the unit prices

2inch mortar emplacement
88mm Wehr mortar = 60mm mortar
2inch vanilla mortar

Mortar Halftrack: i dont know where to put that because this "glasscannon" does sometimes very good (much better than wehr and us mortar) and sometimes it dies quick to at gun crawl

mortar halftrack is very important for pe because they die without quick to combined support weapons (when i lost my 2 mortar HTs im mostly done without help)

Pak = 57mm = 6 pounder (every has its special advantages)
Marder=At Halftrack (at halftracks dont replace my marders)
M18
geschützwagen
stug

[AmPM]

Almost impossible to rate, in different circumstances each one has advantages over the other...

So rated in general without doctrine stuff.

81mm Wehr'
2" Emplacement
MHT w/ Flame
60mm
MHT
2" Mortar

PaK 38
57mm
50mm ATHT
Marder
M18
STuG/Hetzer

[CafeMilani]

ATG; 6 pounder
pak
marder; g-wagon
50m HT; m18
stug


mortar emplacement
MHT
ami mortar
wehr mortar

didnt test the 2inch mortars yet, im not a mortar fan..

[wildsolus]

88mm Wehr
60mm
Mortar Halftrack
2 inch mortar

Pak
57mm
M18
Marder
Stug


as always, the units strength depends on whoever is controlling it

[Smokaz]

Rating the 60mm higher than the wehr mortar? Thats interesting. How did you come to this conclusion?

Also, I dont think its part of the balance moderator's duty to edit wildsolus's post with the intent of debunking his opinion with yours. You can post normally like everyone else if you have inqueries.

Btw, when people rate the 2inch mortar high do they rate it with the doctrinal buff or not??

[TheWindCriesMary]

 These results are pretty much spot on, and I know will go a long way to helping the discussion reach a logical conclusion.

 Good to see.

 -Wind

ps. Draken edited Wild's post with a rebuttal? Weeird.

[Draken]

as always, the units strength depends on whoever is controlling it

Agreed but it doesn't change anything 81 mm mortar will be still better then 60 mm in noobs hands, same for better players, they will own you with pershing but they will rape you with tiger, good players will just abuse strength of the unit to the max, so noob may think that even 2 inch mortar is OP.
(that's what I added under wilds post)

Also, I dont think its part of the balance moderator's duty to edit wildsolus's post with the intent of debunking his opinion with yours. You can post normally like everyone else if you have inqueries.

I did that to don't derail the thread and start offtopic, if you don't like it I won't do it  anymore. And I did not edit his post, I just added my comment on it, that's not changing his post...

And yes I would also like to hear alohas comment about rating 60 mm higher then 81mm.

[CrazyWR]

Mortar HT with incendiaries
Mortar pit
Wehr Mortar
Commando Mortar team
Ami Mortar
Regular Brit Mortar team

Pak
6pdr
57
50mm
Marder
M10
M18
Stug/Hetzer

[CafeMilani]

Rating the 60mm higher than the wehr mortar? Thats interesting. How did you come to this conclusion?

Also, I dont think its part of the balance moderator's duty to edit wildsolus's post with the intent of debunking his opinion with yours. You can post normally like everyone else if you have inqueries.

Btw, when people rate the 2inch mortar high do they rate it with the doctrinal buff or not??

i rate it higher because:
 
its shells come down much faster, even if u let it shoot on its own
its much cheaper (i dont have a wehr mortar mainly because its almost 500 MP, veryvery expensive.
and at vet 1 (which is easy to get) it has the range of a wehr mortar

these 3 points make the ami mortar so much better.

[Baine]

Mortar pit
wehr mortar - ami mortar - mando mortar
MHT - 2 inch mortar

and

Pak - 57 - 6pdr
50mmHT
Marder - M10
m18 - stug

[Falcon333]

Mortar Halftrack
Mortar Emplacement
81mm mortar = 60mm (Situational)
2 inch

---

Pak
57mm
6 pounder
M18
50mm
Marder
StuG

(I never really used Geschutzwagens, so I didn't add it to the list.)

[gamesguy2]

Taking cost into account here.

Mortar HT
Mortar Emplacement
81mm/60mm Mortar - 60mm Mortar isn't as good in a new player's hands but with an experienced player its cheap cost and +range vet 1 makes it on par with the 81mm.

50mm HT
Pak38/6pounder/Marder - 6 pounder is much cheaper and has a ghetto cloak.   Marder is far superior to all infantry crewed ATGs but cost quite a bit of fuel.
57mm.

[RikiRude]

I don't know how much it has been changed, but i liked the brit mortar with the short range but quick shots and suppression.

[Killer344]

Rating the 60mm higher than the wehr mortar? Thats interesting. How did you come to this conclusion?

Also, I dont think its part of the balance moderator's duty to edit wildsolus's post with the intent of debunking his opinion with yours. You can post normally like everyone else if you have inqueries.

Btw, when people rate the 2inch mortar high do they rate it with the doctrinal buff or not??

i rate it higher because:
 
its shells come down much faster, even if u let it shoot on its own
its much cheaper (i dont have a wehr mortar mainly because its almost 500 MP, veryvery expensive.
and at vet 1 (which is easy to get) it has the range of a wehr mortar

these 3 points make the ami mortar so much better.

Back it up with facts or refrain yourself from posting something like that again, especially when it has been proved to be just a myth several times.

[Tymathee]

Mortars
Ami Mortar (cheapness and rate of fire, yes it's more than the 81mm)
Mortar HT (mobility and incendiary shells )
Wehr Motar (range, and suppression)
Emplacement (w/o doc buffs, with #1, can't counter mortar)
Brit Mortar (range sucks, accuracy is horrendous but does most damage vs infantry of any mortar)

ATG's
50mm (you should see me with one of these)
57mm (i have 2 vet 3's and another vet 2 so meh...)
M18 (Cloak + speed over Pak)
Pak (surprise is nice but having to remember to uncloak to move pisses me off)
Stug (good speed and great on defense or assaulting)
Marder (its slow turn speed has made me take 'em out my army)

[Unkn0wn]

The Mortar HT is probably the only Mortar I have ever been able to get 35 kills on... and in general I frequent a lot more kills on mortar HTs on average than I do with any other mortar.