[US] Armor Overdrive on Calliope

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[BigDick]

I see a huge balance problem with overdrive (Armor T1) is useable on a Calliope because:

 i can not see how every doctrine is able to counter a Calliope (a long range artillery piece with sherman armor/health and around sherman speed usually) moving with flank speed much faster than a panther or clowncar considering the owner of a calliope has at least a minimum of micro.

To kill a Calliope was before this T1 very difficult and now its impossible (without a special doctrine like mi+rocket arty+luck)

I recommend to remove overdrive/flankspeed from calliopes

[RikiRude]

i always wondered if it worked on callis.

[Killer344]

Yes, it seems like a non intended feature.

[WinIsUP]

Indeed. I played against several calliopes yesterday, and without suicideing a panther at it my chances of killing them were dubious indeed.

Unless i can get a double hummel barrage on a calliope :s, but i don't know anyone that stupid.

[acker]

Calliope with Overdrive on moves at a speed of 6. A normal Calliope moves at a speed of 4.

For reference:

-Tigers move at a speed of 4.
-Panzer IVs move at a speed of 5.
-Panthers and normal Shermans move at a speed of 5.2.
-Marders move at a speed of 6.
-Halftracks (including IHTs) move at a speed of 6.5.


I don't see a problem. The normal methods of killing Calliopes revolved around ambushing the thing, anyways. Calliopes didn't last too long on the Leaderboard once people started getting doctrine abilities.

If you can catch a Stuka, you can catch the Calliope.

[Tymathee]

until they get vet and then they're like at 7. I say leave it alone. a panther can still catch it, now its just able to get away from p4's

[Killer344]

Calliope with Overdrive on moves at a speed of 6. A normal Calliope moves at a speed of 4.

For reference:

-Tigers move at a speed of 4.
-Panzer IVs move at a speed of 5.
-Panthers and normal Shermans move at a speed of 5.2.
-Marders move at a speed of 6.
-Halftracks (including IHTs) move at a speed of 6.5.


I don't see a problem. The normal methods of killing Calliopes revolved around ambushing the thing, anyways. Calliopes didn't last too long on the Leaderboard once people started getting doctrine abilities.

If you can catch a Stuka, you can catch the Calliope.

Do you realize how you just contradicted yourself in your own post?

A Panther can't kill a calliope with flank speed, they already struggle when the calliope has smoke, with flank speed, it simply can't kill it.

And the downside of the stuka is the low HP/Armor, calliopes don't have that issue, what kills a stuka may not kill a calliope.

until they get vet and then they're like at 7. I say leave it alone. a panther can still catch it, now its just able to get away from p4's

For future reference, read at least the last post if you don't have time to read the whole thread.

[RikiRude]

A unit that is already 90% of the time near spawn anyways doesn't need it. I mean if it had flank speed and you manage to sneak storms over there, it would still have a good chance to flank speed and haul ass if a shreck shot misses. and that's what, 10-12 pop doing nothing on the field as it slowly comes over to stalk the calli.

[LuAn]

What about the acceleration increase?
   http://www.coh-stats.com/Ability:Flank_Speed

[Tymathee]

Doesnt Flank Speed also increase the acceleration/turning speed?

no, just accel and there's no accuracy mods. so if it calculates a hit you're gonna get hit.

and killer I've had a panther chance down my callie with flank speed, it just doesn't last long enough to really get away without at least taking 2-3 hits.

[pqumsieh]

I really do not see an issue with flank speed on the cali. We're talking about a T2 unlock and a T1 unlock that must be accompanied by a purchase of flank speed. Arguing that it is too difficult to kill is kinda like arguing that any other unlock makes a unit too effective. You are better off arguing for a price increase on flank speed rather then the complete removal of it from the cali.

There are no major balance issues from this, but obviously others disagree so now that I've said my two cents I'll step out.

PQ

[Killer344]

Doesnt Flank Speed also increase the acceleration/turning speed?

50% on both IIRC.


More than enough to get away alive from most threats coupled with smoke.

[bbsmith]

Doesnt Flank Speed also increase the acceleration/turning speed?

50% on both IIRC.


More than enough to get away alive from most threats coupled with smoke.

It gives x3 Acceleration and x2 Deceleration.

[gamesguy2]

Calliope is already the most survivable onmap arty in the game, it doesn't need to be able to overdrive and crush the storms attacking it or outrun the panther attacking it.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Calliope is already the most survivable onmap arty in the game, it doesn't need to be able to overdrive and crush the storms attacking it or outrun the panther attacking it.

 Agreed. Flank speed has no business on a calliope. It does not help in terms of balance, and it just flat out doesn't make sense.

 That rocket rack is heavy, and cumbersome, it looks bizarre to see the sherman racing off into the sunset with it there.

 -Wind

[Mysthalin]

Nebles arn't doctrine specific
Paks arn't doctrine specific

Exactly - calliopes with flank speed are a T2 unlock, coupled with a T1 unlock that you pay 30 munitions for in order to be able to use flank speed to start moving at a slightly higher speed than a panther does.

I also find this noteworthy : the calliope uses the critical table Us_supply_truck, which means a lot of weapons can give it engine damage from the front at full health, and LATHTs with treadbreaker will almost always immobilise the poor thing.

If we remove flank speed from calliopes, let's give the calliope the critical table Us_Armor, same one as on every other sherman.


---Kiler344: I fixed the broken link to the quote.

[TheWindCriesMary]

If we remove flank speed from calliopes, let's give the calliope the critical table Us_Armor, same one as on every other sherman.

 That compromise sounds fair. It is after all a sherman chassis, so it only makes sense.

 -Wind

[BigDick]

I dont see any reasons for the "its a T1 and T2" argument:

- calliopes were T3 a long long time in EiR and since a while its a T2 and without flankspeed it does not lose its usage (fireing rockets from far away)

- flankspeed is a T1 yes but you don't get it for the calliope you get it for shermans to flank tanks or at guns

and please stop this "its a T2 with a T1" argument because i don't suggest to remove the calliope or to remove flank speed in general (even when its to good imho for a T1 but thats an other discussion). I just suggest to remove flankspeed from calliopes to make them counterable.

the counter discussion:

a panther is no counter anymore (i tried it by myself) to "suicide" a panther far behind enemy lines to seek and kill a calliope was far away from being 100% successfully but now it is impossible.
I tried it the calliope moved from spawn to get a shot off it came into sight and i got 1 shot off than it escaped to at guns using flankspeed (duration is long enough to across huge maps) without me being able to follow it

i don't see why a T1 armor ability that works on main battle tanks should make a always hard to counter calliope unkillable

[Smokaz]

I have flank speed on my calliope right now, and coupled with smoke and the surviability of the unit to begin with it has become a unimaginable event for me to lose it, other than a billion shrek squads somehow nailing me in spawn all at once with me not paying attention.

This isn't really neccessary to discuss to great lengths, it should just be removed. Panther getting mario karted by the calliope?

The critical table of the calliope makes up for its high health, its an artillery piece after all. It's just one of those units that has to drive between spawn and fire positions all the time, like most other artillery.

And absolutely no to improving its base survivability in any way. If there's any problem with the calliope, it is not its surviability. Its the toughest arty piece in the game.

[Mysthalin]

If a calliope is caught by whatever is sent to kill it, the calliope is basically dead(unless it's sitting at it's spawn, then it retreats). I do not see how litelarly fixing a bug with it getting engine damage from nebelwerfer flame is at all a no-go zone.