Firefly longer reload

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[RikiRude]

I'm curious as to why the firefly is the only tank that suffers from lower rate of fire the closer an enemy tank gets. why do i have to suffer if some stug is near me, but im firing at a panther? I mean is this one of those things I'm not sure if EIR benefits from. I don't think a player should have to keep a CCT in his FFs pocket for it to get that quicker reload. 14 pop plus a spotter to take advantage, while something such as say a marder, at 6 pop just locks down and gets that huge site range. maybe im just not using my FFs to their maximum potential, and if that's the case, just give me some pointers, thanks!

[Mgallun74]

I'm curious as to why the firefly is the only tank that suffers from lower rate of fire the closer an enemy tank gets. why do i have to suffer if some stug is near me, but im firing at a panther? I mean is this one of those things I'm not sure if EIR benefits from. I don't think a player should have to keep a CCT in his FFs pocket for it to get that quicker reload. 14 pop plus a spotter to take advantage, while something such as say a marder, at 6 pop just locks down and gets that huge site range. maybe im just not using my FFs to their maximum potential, and if that's the case, just give me some pointers, thanks!

part of relics "balance"

[spinn72]

Fireflys are good at the moment.  Get the Tank Commander on every firefly to increase sight, then stack on top a CCT to increase sight futher and you won't need a spotter.

Firefly + Tank Commander + vet2 CCT

= 35 + 10 + 10??? = 55
Range alone is 55 but with vet2 CCT range is 60.

therefore you can see your max range - 5 which is still more than a panther which has 47.5 range.

Btw Marders and Getchutzwagons have 60 range too, as do Paks.

Every brit needs to realise if they are going to get any heavy armour whatsoever they need a CCT, preferably a Vet2 CCT to get something out of it.

btw to answer the rest the firefly should never be close to anything anyway, long range is 60 and mid range is 35, if something is coming to you do keep your distance to own pretty much any tank.

[jackmccrack]

I think the rate of fire depends on the distance to your target, so a Stug giving you a hug should not affect your rate of fire unless you target it.

[fallensoldier7]

Don't PIATs have a higher rate of fire or some other bonus at close range?  I think it's just how Relic wants the unit to be used.  If there is lower RoF closer to a tank, then obviously the FF should be used as a long range weapon to snipe tanks, and it excels at that greatly.  

You compared the FF to a marder, but really marders don't have the mobility of the FF (mainly because they do not have a turret) so I think a somewhat better comparison would be the FF and the panther, as they are both tank destroyers even though the panther is slightly better vs infantry.  If you think about it, the panther and FF pretty much fill the same role, except I think the FF has slightly longer range but significantly less armor.

[gamesguy2]

Don't PIATs have a higher rate of fire or some other bonus at close range?  I think it's just how Relic wants the unit to be used.  If there is lower RoF closer to a tank, then obviously the FF should be used as a long range weapon to snipe tanks, and it excels at that greatly.  

All hand held AT weapons reload faster at close range.

Firefly reloads faster at long range, its a design decision.

[Tymathee]

Well, not only does the Firefly get a lower reload at long range (1.5 than normal) but at long range, it gets a faster reload (.65) then plug that in with a cct which gives you 20% faster (0.52) and then at vet 2, you get another 20% (0.416)

So, the FF reload is 8.5 at medium range, at long range it's 12.75 and at long range it's 5.525, then with a CCT it's 4.42 and with a vet 2+ cct it's 3.536 which is faster than most tanks at all ranges, it's a pretty damn poweful tankk. It penetrates panthers and tigers probably 95 out of 100 times you'll fire the thing.

[RikiRude]

thanks guys! i think maybe im just bringing my ff out when i should be bringing an ATG, and i need to get another CCT or something, and also need to keep my FF at a longer distance.

[spinn72]

Fireflys die very quickly to Paks and Marders, even 50mm HTs do quite a lot of damage to it. 

the Firefly is best used against any tank tougher than a Panther (panther, tiger, KT [extremely good against this], Jagd).  It also chews up P4s and stugs well, but once you have it on, they'll adjust and destroy it with some handheld AT or paks/marders.

btw vet3 reload is 0.9 again, although i'd consider it quite a feat to get vet2 CCT and vet3 FF, i have never got it and i pretty much always play brits.

[Demon767]

Yea as soon as i see a Firefly i bring on a pak becuase i kno how dangerous it can be, with Heat rounds its not that much bigger of a deal at short range but at long i will not chance it.

[Mysthalin]

Uhh, tym :

It's only a 1.2 modifier at long range.
It also has a wind-down of 0.5
So it's more like :
L  6.025
M 9
S 10.7

With a vet 2 CCT it's
5.525*0.8*0.8 + 0.5 = 4.036

Fun fact :
The penetration against panthers is 94.6 at long range and against Tigers it's 116.

[Tymathee]

Yea i know about the cooldown, didn't feel like calculating it.

Fireflys die very quickly to Paks and Marders, even 50mm HTs do quite a lot of damage to it. 

the Firefly is best used against any tank tougher than a Panther (panther, tiger, KT [extremely good against this], Jagd).  It also chews up P4s and stugs well, but once you have it on, they'll adjust and destroy it with some handheld AT or paks/marders.

btw vet3 reload is 0.9 again, although i'd consider it quite a feat to get vet2 CCT and vet3 FF, i have never got it and i pretty much always play brits.

it's actually quite easy to get a vetted ct, I got it without even noticing it, it was like "oh, it's vet 2" and then a couple games later "oh, its vet 3" and this was without any crush and just using it the way its intended. Put it in range of some stags and croms and rape infantry. Also stick it beihnd hedges and just have a nice lil defensive line of tanks and vehicles, it works really well, especially on stags, makes them even nastier to infantry if you can believe that.

[Leafedge]

Relic designed the reload like that to make the firefly a dedicated tank sniper, with crappier and crappier performance as range closes. They wanted it to be good at long range, and defenseless at short range, and this was the way they chose to go about it.

Another example - The flamethrower weapons: They receive large bonuses against units in heavy cover, and do little to units in negative cover, and almost nothing to units in water. This is the inverse of most weapon types with relation to cover. Snipers are similar too.

Flamethrower - Accuracy and damage inverted with respect to cover
Firefly - Reload inverted with respect to range
Sniper - Accuracy inverted with respect to range

It's to make  these units crappy in situations where most would excel, and good where others are bad. Makes the game interesting  

Edit: And Jack, you're right about the targeting thing. This depends solely on the range of the target to the firefly, irrespective of other units.

[Mgallun74]

poor firefly, the best tank for at for allies is nerfed by relic like a stuffed pig, gets a stupid shot timer increase if something is close to them, and to top that off, for some reason they get about 100 less hp than the other shermans!!!  relics balance!

[Ununoctium]

Hold on...

If you change to aim at something farther after you shoot does your reload decrease?

this is one of those stupid modifiers. just move the reload modifier into  something else

[Leafedge]

I don't know why people keep calling this a nerf. First of all, its always been like that, so it isn't a nerf. Second, its a huge buff. The FF is the only unit that doesn't have to close in to acheive its maximum effectiveness. Any other unit has to close in if it wants to finish something off quickly, but the firefly doesn't have to do that, which is good because doing so can be dangerous.

Also don't forget, all engagements start at long range, so the firefly should be at an advantage. As long as you aren't dumb and don't let them get close, you are golden. Having a unit that has its strengths and weaknesses inverted in relation to other units is incredibly useful. It's like mixing a flamethrower in with small arms - In cover or not, you are never safe. This makes the FF stronger, not weaker...seriously people, come on...

Edit: remember, nerfed at short range means the same thing as buffed at long range. Think about it. The firefly is a good tank.

[Mgallun74]

I don't know why people keep calling this a nerf. First of all, its always been like that, so it isn't a nerf. Second, its a huge buff. The FF is the only unit that doesn't have to close in to acheive its maximum effectiveness. Any other unit has to close in if it wants to finish something off quickly, but the firefly doesn't have to do that, which is good because doing so can be dangerous.

Also don't forget, all engagements start at long range, so the firefly should be at an advantage. As long as you aren't dumb and don't let them get close, you are golden. Having a unit that has its strengths and weaknesses inverted in relation to other units is incredibly useful. It's like mixing a flamethrower in with small arms - In cover or not, you are never safe. This makes the FF stronger, not weaker...seriously people, come on...

Edit: remember, nerfed at short range means the same thing as buffed at long range. Think about it. The firefly is a good tank.

what is the reload time for a FF at short range and at longe range.. no vet, no cct.

[Tymathee]

I don't know why people keep calling this a nerf. First of all, its always been like that, so it isn't a nerf. Second, its a huge buff. The FF is the only unit that doesn't have to close in to acheive its maximum effectiveness. Any other unit has to close in if it wants to finish something off quickly, but the firefly doesn't have to do that, which is good because doing so can be dangerous.

Also don't forget, all engagements start at long range, so the firefly should be at an advantage. As long as you aren't dumb and don't let them get close, you are golden. Having a unit that has its strengths and weaknesses inverted in relation to other units is incredibly useful. It's like mixing a flamethrower in with small arms - In cover or not, you are never safe. This makes the FF stronger, not weaker...seriously people, come on...

Edit: remember, nerfed at short range means the same thing as buffed at long range. Think about it. The firefly is a good tank.

what is the reload time for a FF at short range and at longe range.. no vet, no cct.

I posted it on the first page. Look for my 1st post.

I love the firefly an when we had reinforcements, i'd go rca just to get a firefly, panthers and tigers and king tigers fear it for a reason. Whenever there's a firefly around, pr and especially wehr players shat themselves and try their damnest to kill it.

Only people i see whine about it's "nerf" is those who only play allies and have no idea how fearful it is to play as wehr or pe and have that thing popping you out of your range.

[CrazyWR]

rca was definitely the best package.

[Killer344]

poor firefly, the best tank for at for allies is nerfed by relic like a stuffed pig, gets a stupid shot timer increase if something is close to them, and to top that off, for some reason they get about 100 less hp than the other shermans!!!  relics balance!

And it works like a charm, why should we change it?