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Author Topic: [CW] Royal Engineers  (Read 5086 times)
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spinn72 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1802



« on: September 20, 2009, 12:33:24 am »

Writing this up to show what i think about this doctrine, as the one i've played for so long.  All my ratings (5/5 being the highest) are my opinion of which abilities are better than others.

T1:

Holding The Line - Nice T1, just a basic infantry buff helping them in cover slightly.  Pretty balanced when comparing all similar T1s. 3/5

Mobile Reinforcements - Again a very good T1 since every tank comes in half the time.  Maybe it shouldn't be all platoons with a vehicle, but all platoons with a Heavy tank (cromwell, CCT, Churchill, Firefly) since this could be slightly OP. 5/5

Desert Rats - Excellent little buff for armour, very good for RE, pretty balanced too.  Just makes tanks better when standing still, very good against infantry 3/5

The Basics - Very useless T1, the worst of all the building T1s, even though i don't really fortify stuff myself, it's just not worth it.  I suggest to add sappers building Tank Traps and thats fine, even if you take away Tommy infantry's ability to build Sandbags.  1/5

Improved Engines - Excellent for Churchills, noticable mostly on rollout and when driving on roads.  Combined with Flanking manauvers this works really well, but remember it's only max speed so it won't be of use very often. 3/5


T2:

Hull Down - Useless for most tanks i'd say.  Immobilise in EIR is a massive disadvantage and i think it's quite useless, however this may become much better if T3s/T4s come in like Hull Down Command or something.  Good buffs, but not useful 2/5

Petard Rounds - AVRE available, a fantastic investment, but you will need to get the T3 for it and also get it to Vet2 to make it deadly and feared. 3/5

Mk VI - OP right now, way too good, however it should stay as a T2.  I suggest removing the Mine Flail upgrade for this churchill to balance it out a bit.  A must have.  5/5. 

Note:  If you get MkVIs you don't really need to get Crocs, these things kill infantry pretty well with a CCT.

Ablative Armour - Not an amazing ability by the looks of it, but it works wonders when facing churchills against P4s/Schrecks.  basically makes them much harder to penetrate.  Duration is amazing as 45 seconds, i like the ability and would reccomend it.  3/5

Boys AT Rifle - I've never used this, not interested in a Light AT.  I rely on 4 ATGs, Mk VIs as general AT and a Firefly especially for heavier tanks.  This would probably be good against PE but i haven't used them so i'm not going to rate it.

T3:

Flame Modifications - Fantastic T3, perfectly balanced.  I couldn't say much more, even the vet is balanced.  If you go MkVIs however you may not want this, and if you go AVRE don't get this either.  4/5.

Bogged down - A literally this is a button you can use on anyone in sight.  Seems like it would be great against Panthers, Tigers, KTs and Jagds and actually give your Mk VIs a chance of doing serious damage, but either way i wouldn't consider it amazing as a T3  -33% moment speed just doesn't seem like enough to me either, i think -50% would balance the ability and make it more useful.  3/5

Bombardiers - Lovely buff to the AVRE very, very good.  Balanced by the looks of it too.  3.5/5

TBA - I suggest that this should be Improved Emplacements, somewhere along the lines of "Emplacements get +25% health, +5 Range"  The range buff would make it T3 worthy, and the health would help too.  Right now the emplacement side of RE is non existant.

TBA - I suggest a possible general armour buff "improved armour", maybe all tanks recieve 15% less damage, just something easy, or maybe even something relating to the Kangaroo Carrier

T4:

For King and Country - It's for the Fatherland, but its a T4?Huh??  I don't see it being amazing, i'm not even trying it for that reason.  It's only defensive, and only in friendly territory.  2/5

Flanking Maneuvers - Great T4, well made and balanced too.  Many buffs, the main one being speed.  Works very well with staghounds rushing turreted defenses/paks  4/5


TBA - Possibly an Emplacement Buff again, a sort of "sim city" buff.

Many TBAs for T4s need to be filled
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lionel23 Offline
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Posts: 1854


« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2009, 01:47:00 am »

I'm playing a very strong RE company myself, and I would just like to point out some things here that you may be underestimating:

Hull Down is one of the best upgrades for tanks, especially churchills and fireflys (not so much for cromwells).  Reason?  A hulldown firefly can reliably bounce 50mm AT rounds, and a lot of panzer 4 and even panther shots, giving it more time to fire back.  Churchills they become hard beasts to kill if your church croc gets a damaged engine and you basically make it a tough 'bunker' for enemy infantry to charge it.

MK 6 is a horrible tank compared to the much superior Croc version, which has more life and the addition of a long range flame thrower.  The MK6 suffers from horrible speed and crap penetration (its only a 75mm, and thus has trouble dealing with Stugs and Panzer 4s just like a churchill), not to mention being close to twice more expensive, pop wise, compared to the Churchill mk 4 (the mk6 is NOT worth 5 pool cost against armor like a firefly).

Ablative armor isn't bad, makes churchs and fireflys tough nuts to crack and could save them from that all too fatal final shot with a lucky richocet!

Bogged down is a good tank chasing/disabling ability... ever had a firefly be chased by 3 p4s?  Use bog down and you can escape (ability also stays on wreck too, so good for suicide units).  Besides doing the speed, the MAIN advantage of it is axis tanks are 20% easier to penetrate while they are under the affect of the buff, making it easier for other tanks to blast them.
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Congratulations, dear sir...I must say, never before have I seen such precise gunnery displayed. - CrazyWR (on Leaderboard Howitzers)

spinn72 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1802



« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2009, 02:26:16 am »

thanks for the advice.  Hull down would seem useful in that sense yes lionel.  I disagree with the Mk6 comments however, remember a CCT buffs it to the point that it can kill so much more.  The croc is marginally better, yes, however it cannot handle heavy tanks at all and possibly with an AVRE i wouldn't consider it worth an investment since MKVI and AVRE would provide enough AI support.

I thought bogged down was only for 1 vehicle.
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lionel23 Offline
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Posts: 1854


« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2009, 02:34:45 am »

Bogged down is a MASS SLOW and PENETRATION BUFF to all enemy tanks and ATGs and halftracks around the selected one vehicle you want (and it works on allied tanks too, so you can use it on a pershing and wow, rape fest).

Croc though is more than marginally better, as it has more HP (Substantial) than the basic chuchill, hence can live much much longer and why I find it more useful for the same pop cost as the Mk6.
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Sharpshooter824 Offline
I <3 Aloha
EIR Veteran
Posts: 775


« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2009, 01:11:15 pm »

I have to disagree about the statements about the AVRE, its all out horrible, its pretty much like an arty piece ( Because its gun is on a recharge) and the fact that it cant defend itself, and being 8 pop.. you can get a lot better things for 8 pop and what not, its really just a waste of pop cap to be very honest..

I wouldn't recommend it..
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Rawr
CrazyWR Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3616


« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2009, 01:18:10 pm »

I ran an RE company 2 resets ago.  The problem with the Mk6, like Lionel says, is that it is so slow.  While the Sherman has a chance to get by a pak after a couple shots(max) and take it out, then dispatch the support after, the Churchill takes more than 2 shots to get by because of its ridiculously slow speed.  While it may bounce a few extra, it just doesn't seem worth it.  The Churchill Croc can hit from almost across the screen and defend itself vs p4s decently enough that with another source of AT around, you can run through most positions.  When they fix IHT's to allow units inside to be flamed out again, the Croc will be far superior to the mk6 again.  As for the AVRE, its a situational unit, but you can use it to wipe out a pak or mg that allows you to advance with other units.  One shotting enemy support weapons is definitely not useless IMO...and its a lot tougher than most other arty pieces...
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1. New tactics? it's like JAWS, first one in the water dies

RCA-land where shells fall like raindrops and the Captain is an invincible god
RikiRude Offline
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Posts: 4376



« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2009, 01:29:23 pm »

ive seen AVREs totally wreck and own, and I've seen them do jack. it seems like a hard piece to use. and I think most people agree a stuh is much much better because it doesn't have a recharge timer or anything like that. but of course it has much less armor, and no turret, not that the avre makes use of it's turret because the turn speed is so damned slow lol.
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Quote from: Killer344
Killer344: "Repent: sory no joke i just had savage diorea"
... or a fat ass cock sucking churchill being stupid
lionel23 Offline
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Posts: 1854


« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2009, 01:46:31 pm »

But don't forget the StuH is cheaper I think than the Church, and they have better frontal armor than a Panzer 4... I've seen infantry AT and shermans have trouble pushing them back if they're really determined to attack something, especially in mass even tanks (non upgun shermans) have trouble with their shots bouncing while a StuH always penetrates due to it being an artillery round.
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anthony210 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1016


« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2009, 02:06:00 pm »

Even if a StuH penetrates, it does minimal damage to armor.
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RikiRude Offline
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Posts: 4376



« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2009, 02:44:00 pm »

Even if a StuH penetrates, it does minimal damage to armor.

stuhs with heat rounds do decent enough damage to shermans and do good damage to m10s. and probably fair even better vs. m-18s.
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Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2009, 02:45:28 pm »

M18 has the same armor type as the M10, and, IIRC, just 25 less health(which equals to something like 6 percent less).
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anthony210 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1016


« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2009, 02:59:43 pm »

Even if a StuH penetrates, it does minimal damage to armor.

stuhs with heat rounds do decent enough damage to shermans and do good damage to m10s. and probably fair even better vs. m-18s.

Even with HEAT rounds they do a lot less damage vs armor than the other axis tanks.  A StuH will not win any 1v1 vs any allied armor.
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lionel23 Offline
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Posts: 1854


« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2009, 10:20:27 am »

I've yet to see a StuH not penetrate because of the artillery round, and I think a StuH could easily beat a non-upgun Sherman pretty easily if its a front fight (Sherman bounces shots, the StuH never seems to 'bounce' a shell).
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Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18379


« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2009, 10:25:52 am »

What?
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Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2009, 12:06:12 pm »

With a base penetration of
0.8-0.9-1 L/M/S
and penetration modifiers of
0.75 vs Shermans
2.98 vs M10s
1.221 vs Cromwells
0.58 vs Churchills
0.55 vs Pershings

It's got quite reliable penetration against tanks.

It deals 60 damage per shot, so using it at point blank range to help kill enemy tanks isn't that bad of an idea. Why, I still harrass ununoctium about how he lost his vet 2 Pershing to one of my StuHs ^^.
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EliteGren Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6106


« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2009, 12:14:33 pm »

You should harrass the guy who lost his vet 2 pershing to a bike.
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i prefer to no u
Don't knock it til uve tried it bitchface, this isn't anything like salads version. Besides u said a semois conversion would never work, now look that's the most played map, ohgodwhy.jpg r u map lead
Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2009, 12:15:10 pm »

Ununoctium gets more pissed off by it.
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RikiRude Offline
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Posts: 4376



« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2009, 03:01:59 pm »

Ive seen stuhs totally wreck regular shermans and m10s because they bounce the front a lot. Or they just add in that extra damage that adds up. I mean, if someone with better micro on the stuh then the sherman, the stuh stands a decent chance 1v1.
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lionel23 Offline
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Posts: 1854


« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2009, 10:11:56 am »

Thank you Riki for backing me up!  I didn't know anyone else off the top of my head who went up against Puddin's StuH force like I did, but man StuHs can wreak allied armor pretty well as their rounds don't bounce like Sherman/m18/m10 rounds can.
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Killer344 Offline
The Inquisitor
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Posts: 6904



« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2009, 10:40:31 am »

Sigh, only lack of micro can make someone loose a sherman/m10 to stuhs.
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If I get shot and it's a gay medic fixing me up, he's not gonna be fondling my balls while he does it. You can't patch a chest wound and suck a cock at the same time.
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