Advice from Axis PLZ

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[3rdCondor]

I'm trying to decide if Flak 88s are worth getting for the defensive doctrine because i see them dying constantly. I know that I want the Ready rounds bonus cuz i love using nebs and stukas against tanks. I also know that i need pak ambush and fatherland fortification. military intelligence would be nice but I'd have to give up the 88. I've had incredible success against some vet 3 T17s and shermans with only 2 paks so I'm not sure if an 88 will be useful or just a punching bag for allied airborne and rangers. I have 3 choices (as you all know) so plz help me out. your thoughts?

[AmPM]

The 88mm can be great, as long as its supported vs infantry (MG bunker + flamethrowers works rather well).

It's also fun when going up against commandos to shoot down gliders =)

Think of it as an Area Denial weapon instead of a big ATG.

[Draken]

88 is map dependant, requries good teamwork, not recommended for new players atleast in my opinion, try using p4s as soft counter for everything supported by paks and mgs if you like support weapons, if you are new try to not use to many units of high risk like tigers, snipers etc.

And don't hold ground for all cost, it's better to retreat and wait for your teammates then loose all shit, and loose attrition war.

[bbsmith]

It really depends on the map. On certain maps 88s will be useless if there's a lot of shot blocking. Some maps might be so big that the 88 can be completely avoided and you will spend half your time sitting around it doing nothing.

[RikiRude]

I run an 88 in my company, and I agree with all above posts. People always seem to praise me for how I call in my 88 and I'll tell you why.

First off, buy a medkit for your 88. Second, it's best to bring on an 88 mid game when you have the most pop so you can better protect your 88, but if you have a good early hold on the map, sometimes it's good to bring it on early, ALWAYS ask your team mates before bringing it on, especially if they are more experienced than you. That way they can bring all their forces near yours while you set up, it doesn't matter if you lose a little ground while setting up, it'll be worth it.

Third, this is what I call in with my 88.
Pios, fully upgraded with everything except a mine sweeper/vanilla bunker of course. Put the MG bunker a little bit behind your 88, so the MG covers the entire 88 and depending on your surroundings a flank as well. Put the mine on a road to either the upper left or upper right of your 88, that way if someone tries flanking your 88 with a light vehicle, they will most likely hit it. goliath, you want this far enough from your 88 so that it wont take damage when it explodes, but close enough to kill something attacking it. i save goliaths for ranger/AB blobs. build sandbags around your 88, put wire up everywhere, and keep those flamers either in the MG bunker to prevent a rear attack, or have them patrol around.

And something also equally important, bring a bike! You 88 has tremendous range! Make the most of it, keep a bike around and this will help prevent you from getting flanked. Depending on what point in the game you have your 88 on, I like to keep volks in the bunker ready to recrew if something goes wrong.

Also if your 88 is getting attacked a lot, bring your officer over and supervise it, and his arty is great for defending it. This combination works so incredibly well one of the last games i palyed (i should of saved the replay) i had 3 t17s, a pershing, a sherman, and rangers all attack my 88, with my team mates pak backing me up, we killed everything, t17 hit the mine, officer killed lots of rangers and damaged some tanks, goliath out right killed 3 bunched up damaged vehicles, and officer luger/flamers cleaned up remaining infantry.


Also keep in mind, 88+pios+bunker+bike is like 14 pop cap, but that usually leads to locking down a large portion of the map, don't baby sit your 88, unless your bike spots an attack going towards it, the rest of your forces should be with your team mates, because they will most likely have all 3 enemies on their side because the enemy will ignore the 88 side of the map, nothing is worse than getting attacked by the entire enemy team and having a team mate with like a P4 and grens and what have you around their 88.

Also if you are getting ready rounds 88 is even more important, you can play an amazing support role for your team. i have ready rounds, large rockets, and omniscience, i bring in my 88 lock down an area, bring in a nebel, stuka, and officer, switch off supervising those units, and just arty where my team needs it and have bikes everywhere to spot around, it's fun =)

[3rdCondor]

thanks I'm convinced that gettin' and 88 is the right call 

[Malgoroth]

True that. Riki's 88 played an integral role in saving our asses in a 3v3 where we went up against 4 fucking pershings. The slaughter that ensued when they foolishly tried to attack it was legendary.

[Smokaz]

They are only good against bad companies imo

[Draken]

Same as double p4 start? 

3rdCondor it seems that you will get 88 anyway, just don't buy more then 1 so you don't need to make your company around them, and from now you will say "tante, abby, rtc or no game".

[RikiRude]

Same as double p4 start? 

3rdCondor it seems that you will get 88 anyway, just don't buy more then 1 so you don't need to make your company around them, and from now you will say "tante, abby, rtc or no game".

haha good words, don't build around the 88, let the 88 do what its supposed to do. one last thing, is if someone has a panther on, run over any hedges or anything like that that could let your enemy get close to your 88 without it being able to hit them.

[bbsmith]

Just don't build bunkers in front of the 88. They will block shots.

[Baine]

And get some vanilla bunkers to jump into with your pios or officer or whatever you need close by. It's cheap and gives line of sight even with no garrisoned units.

But be aware, any player that knows how to move his units will use them as cover from the 88. So put them somewhere behind it.

[AmPM]

And scouting units are a must, either bikes or infantry well ahead of the 88.

[fallensoldier7]

True that. Riki's 88 played an integral role in saving our asses in a 3v3 where we went up against 4 fucking pershings. The slaughter that ensued when they foolishly tried to attack it was legendary.

The only reason that worked was because you were up against 3 Armor companies that had no calliopes.  We should have gone around the other flank of Bocage, but we took a gamble and bet on Riki not supporting his 88 well.  We were wrong sadly.  Props to Riki on thinking through his 88 placement/usage so thoroughly.

[3rdCondor]

It sounds like the 88 is only good if you spend pretty much all of your popcap and resources protecting it. The goal shifts from capping territory and attacking the enemy to protecting the 88. Just played a game where this was evident. However, if the 88 was deployed at a highly valuable strategic point (flank of bocage map), then defending the 88 would mean defending the whole front line of battle. Thus winning the game. 

[AmPM]

Its like artillery in that way, you have to play the game around it.

[von_Luchs]

88s are attention whores.  

They will suck up all the action as soon as its truck enters the map.  Itll eat arty, inf , vehichles.  Because of that, it dies a lot and needs support.  By the same token at least you'll know where they're gonna attack.  

The trick seems to be; to learn to put the 88 down without it getting zerged.  Ive more often seen 88s die in their truck and under construction than win my games.  I just think this means that playing an 88 co can be really frustrating, and takes a play-style different than what most know.

[3rdCondor]

I saw some1s 88 get absolutely RAPED by a commando jeep no vet. the 88 WAS DEPLOYED and it got raped in 3 seconds. WTF? the jeep escaped unscathed. xD

[fallensoldier7]

Not sure how that happened unless the 88 was at low health.  88 trucks will die easily to anything though.  They're pretty weak.

[CommieKillerz]

about 3 garand shots will kill an 88 truck under construction.

yeah.