Recoilless rifle price

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[Tymathee]

Rifles can beat volks depending on what the situation is.  When rifles get close range with volks they reload faster or something which helps them beat volks.  Basic CoH rule: rifles beat volks at close range 1v1.

As for volks vs AB.. I think the volks would win that one too.  Can't be sure though.. you usually never have that kind of engagement.

ab have 70 health, 6 men and the same gun as rofles. So if a ab can beat a volks at close range, then an ab would be better at it and have a chance at beating the 5 man 55 health per man volks

[Killer344]

ABs have Carbines, Rifles use Garands.

[Dnicee]

i just read the first post...didnt bother to read all of them but damn...i have never seen so much complains about the axis tanks before. op tanks here and there. remove them, take away their repairs, decrease price on rrs... whats going on!?   

[Smokaz]

Most of the times, engagements are bigger than a single rifle versus a single volk. Even less usual is two unupgraded squads facing each other. Its much cheaper and cost-effective to upgrade grenades over mp40s. A grenade squad still has its upgrade fully operational at 1 guy left while a 1 man mp40 guy has largely lost his squad's advantage. Then again volks have medikit, but they cant dodge nades very well right after activiation.

So the volks > rifles is very circumstancial. Its true because a single squad of rifles cant zerg covered volks and expect to come out on top in the engagement when one of the players breaks off and retreats in vcoh, but in eirr retreat = lost squad.

[lionel23]

Uhh Dnicee, don't know where you've been but allies have been complaining about axis OP tanks and I have brought it up many times (some other allies are too lazy to post on the forums, I will bump them later....) as well as a few other newer and older players.

Axis support weapons, their doctrinal off-maps, officer off-maps, superior tanks and infantry which vet axis players say 'Use more of your crappy men to beat me!', but when prices are pretty much equal between say a P4 and a Sherman, that's not exactly an option.

Allies advantage is more choice in elite infantry (which was finally relieved with a pool cost to make it comparable to axis elite who have always been at 3 instead of 4), better light vehicles (before mass nerfing of them), and doctrine buffed units (howitzer with 25% quicker cooldown/recharge for one to counter better medium artillery axis have on field which totally negates medium US artillery except for mortar pit WITH supercharge).  And also remember axis have most of their T3 unlocks, while allies only have T1-T2 for the most part, and you can begin to see why some allied players are frustrated.

[CrazyWR]

Stay on topic lionel.

[lionel23]

My bad, anyway overall RR pricing is fine, it's a pretty powerful handheld AT that comes as a pair, and is probably the best hand held AT allies have to offer (next to piats which you can lob).

[SittingDuckbe]

i see all of your points, but can som1 please explain to me why the Rangers only cost 90 MUN for 2 zooks and the AB cost 180 MUN for 2 RRs, RRs are better, but not worth twice the price

[shockcoil]

Its not the price of RRs that the problem, no the price is very justifiable and at the same time quite manageable when building RR heavy companies. The problem is that AB are 4 fucking pool which they have no business being especially not with the recent drops to rangers and commandos. I would advocate 2 pool but thats never going to happen with this community  but I think 3 would be an acceptable compromise.

[Mysthalin]

Because they ARE worth twice the price.

Against a skirted P4, a ranger squad only has a 22.2 percent chance to hit and penetrate with at least 1 bazooka. That means, that out of 1000 engagements at long range with a skirted P4, 778 of them will result in utter failure and not a single bazooka dealing damage to it's target. 14 engagements will end with both bazookas damaging the P4.

Compare this to the RR, with it's near to no scatter, which I will assume to be a 0.9 chance to hit at long range. It ends up being a 89.5 percent chance to hit and penetrate with at least 1 RR.
That means, out of 1000 engagements of an RR squad at long range versus a skirted P4, only 105 will result in utter failure and not a single RR dealing damage to it's target. 455 engagements will end in both RRs damaging the P4.

[SittingDuckbe]

and from up close, what are the damage and hitting chances there with RR and zooks?

[Mysthalin]

Point blank, with the squads being almost crushed by the tank :

Bazooka - 55.5 percent chance to hit and penetrate with at least 1 bazooka. 44.5 percent chance to fail altogether.

RR - 93.75 percent chance to hit and penetrate with at least 1 RR. 6.25 percent chance to fail altogether.

[SittingDuckbe]

Lol, how bad are bazookas, I'm never playing with them again
Where do you get this information, mysthalin?
If this info is true, then the price of RRs is completely correct, they should be double the price of zooks, the only sad thing is like shockcoil said, the ABs costing 4 PP pool, which is avery steep price to pay!

[Smokaz]

Right now its cheaper than ever because you are only hoarding pps for advantages, and the 4 pool price sure as hell didnt stop david, cannonball or fallen or any other ab spamming hobgoblin from creating hordes of vetted airborne crammed into the same company last war/reset. Rangers easily lose combat power, so it makes sense for them to be 3 pool and commandos just arent worth 4 either. Airborne are.

The comparison often drawn between rangers and airborne's survivability usually ignore the fact that upgraded rangers take upgrade "damage" from the first man dropped while being quite ineffective to begin with and a jack-of-all-trades.

AB players are not losing anything from a upgraded airborne squad before you are down to a single guy, only then are you literally at risk from losing grendaes, satchel and you still have 50% of the RR upgrade.

Back when you could buy thompson only rangers, they were a pool 4 unit for sure, right now rangers are not. Any casualty on the six man ranger squad reduces either their anti tank or anti infantry capability, upgraded.

Because of how RRs can be played in many scenarios, I've always disliked fighting them. When doctrines come back they also get their strafe "out of jail free" card to foil you when you commit (often with losses) to getting rid of their hit'n-run tactics. The 4 pool cost is basically just a added grind cost for airborne players who because of doctrine buffs to their elite infantry end up churning out just as many airborne squads for cost as a carabine riflespammer would end up doing the last wars. Thank god for pumas and armored cars and may the devil curse whoever decided ABE should get a accuracy increase.

If the pool costed of AB ever reflected an idea about limit ab spam somehow, it never worked it just prolonged the agony of the grinding player before his horde went nova.

[Mysthalin]

I get the basic stats from the RGDs, and then apply maths.
Use Bernule's formula, and kablamo - you got yourself the probabilities you need ;p.

[tank130]

I get the basic stats from the RGDs, and then apply maths.
Use Bernule's formula, and kablamo - you got yourself the probabilities you need ;p.

I think what he really means is; he makes this shit up, but writes it so well, we dumbasses just believe him....

[Mysthalin]

Uhm, no... I really check the stats in the RGDs then use maths.

Bernules formula looks like this (it's a sketch, rather than the actual formula, as the forums don't support proper maths symbols).

P(x)Y = C(x from Y) *  a^x * (1-a)^(Y-x).

a - the possibility of something happening in one try.
(1-a) - the possibility of the opposite happening.
x - the amount of tries you want to succeed.
Y - the total amount of tries.

If you understand what this means ;p.

[Unkn0wn]

I don't, GO AWAY.

[Mysthalin]

that means I win!

Now give me my jagdpanzer.