Bold suggestion (yet another)

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Calstifer]

Im sure this is going to gain some controversy,  but ill try it anyway.

There is alot of talk on how to nerf the Jag and the KT to make it fair for allied players. I propose that we remove it alltogether.

People might say then the Pershing would become the ace tank, but the tiger would still be a tank to match.

Discuss...

[Trishut]

I would say remove or nerf the repairs on the super heavys.

[Unkn0wn]

We intend on limiting to one per company soon.

[RikiRude]

Honestly I think as long as they are reduced to just 1 in a company things would be fine. tigers and pershings don't need a limit they are fine as is as far as i can tell. after getting stomped the other night, if you use heavy infantry it can really beat out heavy tank companies. you take out all the support, the heavies will fail pretty easy.

[AmPM]

Haven't had any issues with them yet, perhaps learn to use your units?

[Calstifer]

even if its 1 per company, you  can still have  2,3 or 4 in a game.  One is tough to take down  with basic tank tactics and repair. A rush with 3 HT and some inf will anhileate any At defence... no matter how numerous

[AmPM]

Really? So you are suggesting is that 3 IHTs with Infantry in them or Wehr HTs with infantry (8 pop each for HT and Infantry) plus a super heavy will get into and beat 40 pop of AT and infantry? That's 4 ATGs and another 4 squads of infantry + HMG or something else.

If you lose there, you fail.

[Calstifer]

Forgetting something - mortors and newbls, too much range to counter, if we attack we're screwed... all in all  we sit there gathering shrapnil and flame untill tehy CAN roll in

[fallensoldier7]

What's wrong with moving up with your AT force?  A lot of the time, the best defense is a good offense.  If you catch your opponents off guard before their reinforcements arrive then it could go well for you.  It's either that or sit there and be nebeled all day.

This is a lot of theorycraft; there's no way we can predict these kind of situations in a real game scenario. 

For the record, fielding more than 2 units of AT most of the time is overkill.  For 1 PIV, 1 ATG and 1 other type of AT (tank, sticky, Rangers, AB) will do the trick.  If the enemy has more tanks, then there's nothing stopping you from asking your teammates for help.  Even if your enemy has 2-3 heavy tanks on the field, you don't need to field 4 ATGs.  Use teamwork.

[Calstifer]

One is fine, you can deal with that, its just a setback. But in games where you can get up to 4 tanks it takes alot more recorces to take down a heavy tank than it is to build  it for the axis. The tank alone is strong, with inf its invincible.

[AmPM]

Huh? The tank alone is easy, with infantry you just have to know what you are doing.

[panzerman]

i am pretty sure u just have had bad teammates

if you work together anything is possible!!!


really KT if ur us u just need to get a sticky or 2 on it make sure it moves slower then anything on earth and wipe out the inf around it.

as axis a damage engine KT is almost useless unless they try and charge it which is just stupid.
jadg is a little diff but man it's pe they have a hard time and this makes it even for them.

[lionel23]

Even if you take out the engine on one, say we have a game with 2 KTs, a Tiger and Jadg on the field at once.  So you take out an engine on a KT, squads are blown away by supporting tiger, plus whatever mass suppressing mortar (silly if you ask me) and HMG fire, plus infantry squad support in the area.  Best allied tanks are Sherman and Firefly (non-doctrine) to counter this normally, with the best 'heavy' tank being a sherman available to Armor only (churchills don't count as none are on par with a real tank, and the Mk6 is notably missing from the tourney unlocks).

No one in my teams bothers to bring arty because its so one time and situational (105s, priests, 25lbers, calliopes).  They never pay for themselves and without doctrine recharge abilities or increased shells, they are pointless to waste the massive resource sink into currently when you have a nonstop firing, long range, accurate, suppression mortar in Wehr, and a non-counter barrage wehr Mortar HT (which the last few games I played was racking up easily 40+ kills and covered by massive amounts of infantry to instant flame round kill ATGs). Or a long range neb that instant suppresses and burns infantry and support teams alive and there really isn't any allied arty that can fire as rapidly as it needs to, to counter it.

If 25lbers had shorter recharge and 105 range, then maybe, but long barrage delays and uselessness in the middle for allied arty is exactly the same effect and reason why many of us allied players ignored off-maps due to unreliability and shortage of uses (105mm howitzer off-map, for example).

It's much easier to keep mobile forces to be aggressive to hamper axis, which discourages the use of ATGs, Mortars, and HMGs as they simply are too weak, slow, and/or short ranged to support rapidly advancing forces which is what's needed to take on the 'superior' quality of german units.  You don't fight germans head on, you need to flank, which requires movement and speed.

Many of us allies thought the game was far, far more balanced and fun before we reintroduced the KT/Jadg combos, with the M10 being useful for once and shermans performing on par with P4s finally.  Now it's just watch axis bring out (pre-patch) several 'pairs' of speedy jadgs (I believe their speed needs to be nerfed to KT speed), tons of infantry-blowing Tigers (wiping out whole squads, really?) and even more King Tigers.  It's like all the best axis players are using crutches to make up for poor skill by relying on simply a unit that simply drains the power and resources of most allied armies, even with teamwork.  Don't believe me?  Let's look at the leaderboards, which I made in another post.

Wehr has 13 of its 20 leader spots occupied by what I consider heavy or super heavy tanks (namely Panther, Tiger, and King Tiger), while the top spots for PE are a handful of Jadgs as most people don't play them compared to what Wehr can offer.

Allies you're stuck with fielding your elite infantry and a handful of shermans that just can't go toe to toe with that kind of stuff. I believe Calstifer makes many good points and observations, and when you look at the 'strength' of these powers, you're comparing currently unlocked T1s/T2s to what is roughly a T3+ equivalent for what many allied armies have to deal with and face.

[bbsmith]

Use AT Guns.

That is all.

[lionel23]

Bob, not to be rude but do you not even bother reading threads and just follow after what Smokaz says?

ATGs were used, 5-6 AP round ATGs FAILED to penetrate jadgs, who killed them all, and their tank support and crushed their infantry support, pretty much alone (some long distance support from LMG grens to keep most infantry away).

ATGs are not an answer unless tank reapers is in to improve the performance of underperforming ATGs.  Now ATGs against NORMAL tanks is fine, like Stugs and P4s, but their super heavy ability sucks completely, and allied support teams like mortars, ATGs (for sniping) and HMGs can't support them because of much better and superior axis counterparts that can nullify all that.

[EliteGren]

That's bullshit lionel.
AP rounds give you +500% penetration, which makes it virtually IMPOSSIBLE to bounce them.

[lionel23]

Tell that to me, Velocity, Littlehillbilly (I think it was him with Mass AP ATGs that game) and whoever our fourth was, think it was Jodomar or Maysauze, but we all watched 4-5 ATGs ALL FIRE AP rounds and ALL BOUNCE 3-4 volleys off the jadg, causing superficial damage as the pair proceeded to one volley shot our ATGs, m10, upgun sherman, and other infantry support like RRs and bazookas.

So I call bullshit on you.

[CrazyWR]

Really?  I find it incredibly hard to believe you lined up 5 or 6 AT guns, popped AP rounds on all of them, and 2 Jagds sat there, took 0 hits, and raped every one in turn.

[EliteGren]

You cannot bounce them.
YOU CANT

[Tymathee]

That's bullshit lionel.
AP rounds give you +500% penetration, which makes it virtually IMPOSSIBLE to bounce them.

No it's not, infantry have bounced tank shots before, which have 100% penetration vs them, so there is def a chance to penetrate. The only reason that it has 500% is so it can penetrate KT armor but it's still pretty much 100%